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Old Apr 9, 2010, 8:04 AM   #21
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Im pretty much in agreement with Alan. Im going to backpedal a bit and drop the contest idea. But there must be a way that the subject of the challenges can be brought about by other than the 3 moderators. Ive noticed a lack of participation by all three, particularly VSCH1. There have been a few postings by Selven lately and he often has nice remarks to be made. Calr usually posts a pic from his reserves and has been pretty silent lately. All their input is greatly appreciated, but I think that the participators should have some input on what they are going to be shooting. I dont know how this can come about because ultimately someone has to choose. How about a list. Everyone who wants to have a say sign the list. Then in numerical order each person will get to pick the subject. As new members join in they just add their names to the bottom of the list. As each number is used it could be changed to Red so we know its been used. In that way individuals will know well in advance when their turn comes and they can ponder longer on a new and exciting subject. By the way, you dont have to sign up if you dont want. But by that token you also cant complain about the subject.
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 3:51 PM   #22
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It is interesting to note that in spite of the complaints posted here, nobody has posted any suggestions in the "Suggest new challenge" thread since July of last year! Everybody wants new challenge ideas but I don't see anybody posting any. Consequently, I don't think anyone has anything to complain about.

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Last edited by calr; Apr 11, 2010 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Some content removed
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 4:22 PM   #23
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A rude guy your dad.
Who's the Judas?
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 4:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
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A rude guy your dad.
Who's the Judas?
He is talking about me. I think any change will be an improvement. Unless it creates more stagnation. Cal when you clearly ran out of ideas why not ask people what they want. Maybe point out the Suggest New Challenge Thread. What Im looking for is a challenge with more participation both in photos and words. No one learns a thing if we just post pics and get no feedback. I cant imagine what change(s) you are going to do because of me but its still you making those changes and not me. Bring em on.

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Old Apr 9, 2010, 4:57 PM   #25
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OK guys, please let's leave this here, there has been enough crazy stuff at Steve's the past few weeks, I don't want to see our more senior and hopefully wise members going down a similar path.
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 5:27 PM   #26
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Getting back to my original post, I was simply concerned about the lack of comments (good, bad or otherwise) in response to postings. If we are to learn anything, we need feedback...not silence.

At the same time, I applaud the moderators for coming up with challenges that require us to stretch ourselves in new ways. Still, tho, it is frustrating when we don't get responses.
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 6:52 PM   #27
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Walter: it's impossible to comment all of your picks. You posted 9 times and even more picks in this single shoot out. May be we should restrict ourselves


Diagonals -- Father Junipero Serra

Diagonals -- A Fallen Comrade

Diagonals -- Floristically speaking

Diagonals -- Inspirational

Diagonals -- Show-offs

Diagonals -- Ford "woodie" wagon

Diagonals -- Peter's Landing

Diagonals -- Where "Woodies" go to sleep

Diagonals -- at the pier

Last edited by Ordo; Apr 9, 2010 at 6:56 PM.
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 8:27 PM   #28
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I've been watching this thread with interest and Alan T made some excellent points in This Post, especially point number number 7, as the moderators of this forum have devoted many hours of their time to try and improve it. I've seen them put up with criticism from members, too. Yet, they've still allowed for compromises to be made in the best interest of the forums, despite their personal feelings about a given subject.

As for some of the comments in this thread about criticism of images, we had reasons for making some changes and asking members not to critique images unless members specifically asked for comments and critique, as members were becoming afraid to share their efforts in forums because of it. The type critique they were receiving also caused a lot of hard feelings between members.

For example, I've seen comments like "I'm tired of seeing your images because they're blurry." "That model is ugly." "This is a photography forum, so why are you posting those terrible photos here." "You don't know what you're doing and your technique is wrong." "Those are nothing more than snapshots, so why bother to post them as examples of people photos." "Those photos are too noisy and I just don't like them." "You can't get good images from that kind of camera, so why are you trying."

That may be paraphrasing a bit. But, that's not too far off from the comments I've seen that started many conflicts I've been involved with in the past.

Those types of comments often to lead to public arguments, with each member dead set on demonstrating that they're smarter and know how to approach a given subject better than the other poster, regardless of what it takes to "prove" it (often with total disregard for how their comments may be impacting another poster's feelings or motivation or willingness to continue sharing images with others). We ended up banning a number of members a while back after those types of conflicts got out of hand with members losing their tempers and resorting to personal attacks, since we're not going to tolerate that kind of behavior in the forums. We expect members to behave in a civil manner here.

Hence, we did start a forum specific to Critiques some time back to try and put a stop to those types of conflicts, since many members didn't want critique to begin with, much less that type of critique. Not everyone shares images for the purpose of receiving critique. Perhaps I'm starting to get older, even though I'm younger than many members here (and I'm still a "baby faced young guy" if you ask my wife, hence I have a beard to keep her happy). :-)

But, when I started shooting, I always considered capturing memories to be more important than technical details, in order to share those memories with others. Capturing the spirit of the moment and the emotion of the subjects was *far* more important than a bit of blur, grain, how expensive your camera or lens is, or how your composition and technical skills stack up to another person's skills, or any other area.

Steve once told me that the forums should be a place for members to have fun (not just to learn every detail about photography, or how to do something better, or what lens is better than another one, etc.). I've tried not to forget that.

The community we have here is the most important thing, above all else, and the forums should be a fun and friendly place for others to share their knowledge and encourage each other, not to a place to fight about the technical details, as I often see in forum threads. I'm not without guilt either.

Now, for those that want critique in order to improve their skills, we do have two forums that critique is expected in (the Biweekly Shoot Out Forum here is one of them, as is the Photo Critiques Forum). If someone notes that comments and critique are welcome when posting images in forums outside of those two, then feel free to comment (as many members like to hear how to improve their skills).

But, regardless of where your giving critique, please keep the feelings of others in mind and be careful how you comment about images, doing so in a way that recognizes their efforts and encourages them to improve. I've seen too many good members stop posting and sharing their efforts because of fear they'll be embarrassed in public about them.

I'm going to quote from a post I made not long ago here announcing some forum changes:

Photo Critiques, Transportation, Vehicles, Computers

Quote:
We have also renamed our old Critiques and Techniques forum to Photo Critiques, where members can post a photo and receive suggestions on how to improve it via constructive critique, thanks to the hard work by our members and moderators willing to help others, with a special thanks to Hards80 for suggesting that we make this change, along with input and encouragement from Mark1616. Please make sure to read the Photo Critiques Guidelines (a new "Sticky" thread in that forum, with Guidelines for posting in it).

Use of this forum allows members to continue sharing their favorite images in one of the subject specific Post Your Photos Forums, with the opportunity to select a photo they want to get additional feedback on by posting it in Photo Critiques, where members and moderators can share there thoughts about it with more detailed critique.

Note that if you want comments and critique on a photo posted in one of the other forums, please make sure to add something like "C&C welcome" to your posts, so that members know that you don't mind receiving comments and critique outside of the forums setup specifically for that purpose (of course, comments and critique are to be expected if you submit images in the Biweekly Shoot Out Forum, where the hard working moderators have guidelines setup as sticky threads)

But, if you have a specific image that you'd like detailed and constructive feedback on, we encourage you to submit to Photo Critiques, too (even if you've shared it with others in the subject specific Photo Forums).

We wish to thank everyone for participating in these forums, with a special thanks to the moderators and members working so hard to help out. That helps us all to improve our photography skills, and in turn, share what we learn with other members wanting to learn more about producing better images. After all, the best equipment you can buy is only going to help so much, without an understanding of the photography skills needed to produce images that you'll be proud to share with others.
In other words, if you're posting images in the Biweekly Shoot Out Forum, please do so expecting some comments and critique, per the guidelines that the hard working forum moderators have set up.

Now, getting back to the original topic... the main malfunction seems to be some users feel they're not getting enough comments on their images.

I'm guilty of that too (not commenting on many images, unless something really strikes me as being unusual, or I have something in common with the poster or images being posted). There are only so many hours in a day and sometimes other things take priority.

Speaking of hours, I applaud the work the moderators of this forum have put into it over the years, when they were ill or had personal problems, for the good of the forum community.

It's easy to play "arm chair quarterback" and criticize their efforts, just because you've seen it done differently. But, until you've been in their shoes and devoted that many hours, you can't understand the effort they've put into it, and the sacrifices they've made to help others better their skills.

In other words, I appreciate the effort that calr, vsch1 and selvin have put into making the community here a better place for those wanting to improve their skills and I'd urge others to show their appreciation for that effort, too.

These guys have been entrusted to maintain the Biweekly Shoot Out Forum and IMO, they've done a great job of it.

If you don't feel you're getting enough comments, invite others to participate in the forums here and help to make it a better place. ;-)

If you've got an idea for a challenge, post that idea in the Submit New Challenge Ideas thread (as Cal has already pointed out).

Let's remember that we're a community here and we're all trying to help each other (and we should do so with other community members' feelings in mind, including those of our hard working moderators).

To quote Alan T yet again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan T View Post
....
7. Our devoted and dedicated moderators deserve a huge vote of thanks for the enormous amount of time they effort they must be putting in for our benefit.
...
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 10:40 PM   #29
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No comments, well can't speak for others but as for me, it's just a matter of time. Working 60 hours a week (where I'm typing from now), two teenage kids, taking care of my 93 year old dad, driving down to Mom's house 109 miles away every other weekend and keeping both house up and the other stuff I can't remember. I just run out of time to post as much as I would like too. I do enjoy the Biweekly Shoot Out as is, I find viewing the photos posted in each topic really helps me see more than I did before the Shoot Out.

As for a contest, great idea but not in this forum. A contest would make a great addition to Steve's as a new forum. No, I don't want the job.
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Old Apr 9, 2010, 10:56 PM   #30
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I agree with calicajun,

CC should go in the CC forum. The shoot out should just be for all members that want to think out of their comfort box every now and then. Where bullet comments is pretty much enough weather it meets the shoot out challenge.

The member who wants a bi-weekly contest, so they bring their A game and best shots to the contest. And it should be limited on how many entires each should have per contest. And since it is a contest, a thick skin is need as it requires members to post their feeling of the shot. So to get member to be honest about their likes and dislikes. No rebuttals in defense of the photo. If this can keep form being personal, it may be a good idea to have a contest.

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