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Old Nov 6, 2003, 3:30 PM   #1
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Default 300D Back Focus!!!

i took some pics at one of my local camera shops to do some tests. it's hard to get a hold of a 10d. so i wanted to test a 300d to the d100 which they didn't have to demo. well, i took some shots on full auto to see how it handles these shots which are very basic. boy, did it fail this test in my eyes(with back focus). i shot pics with this camera before even in the same shop a couple weeks prior and all my shots came out. this time only 3 out of the 6 shots didn't do this. :x this is making my decision to go with nikon easier as i test. i can't afford to take pics and find out half are back focusing. but the canon does take very clean and crisp images though. i have will have another topic with the test between these 2 cameras.

http://www.pbase.com/macaholik/test_shots_300d_and_d100
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Old Nov 6, 2003, 11:04 PM   #2
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If you search around on this forum for information about how to conduct focusing tests, you'll see that its hard to do good focus testing (along with lens tests). The list of requirements is very

Did you 1/2 press the shutter and wait for the focus to lock and then take the picture? What lens did you use? Was it on a tripod? How good was the light (by the looks of the pictures, ok, but not good.)

I do agree that the first one does not look in focus, but its very easy to get out of focus pictures purely by bad technique. Especially if you are used to a point-and-shoot digital camera, because their DOF is very large.

Eric
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 12:04 AM   #3
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Here's some good info on testing your focus. They have a pretty nice focus test chart for download.

http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/


-jb
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 12:19 AM   #4
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Nikon really doesn't come close to Canon in terms of sensor quality and, therefore, picture quality. Last time I checked, Nikon digital SLRs were in the dark ages (quality and price). I would be careful in your choice, especially if this is your first dSLR. Speaking of focus, the 300D is always locked in AI Focus mode. It tries to track objects in real time. It's a bit tricky to get used to and may explain why some of you shots didn't come out as predicted. Of couse, lighting conditions also have substantial weight. Canon 10D has an option of disabling AI Focus to allows for more predictive focusing.

In short, auto-focus is something you can get used to, but not sensor noice. Nikons are far more noisy. So, while the 10D produces usable shots at 1600 ISO, you would be lucky if you get a 400 ISO good quality shot on the Nikon.

Before you open you wallet, I would suggest visiting DPReview.com for in-depth review of Nikons and Canons. It's an incredibly valuable resourse.

Igor
P.S. After doing much research, I decided to stick with Canon 300D. The shots are spectacular. I've gotten used to AI Focus, so that's no longer a problem. If anything, I can always focus manually.
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 4:07 AM   #5
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pspeyer

Both the 300D and D100 are excellent cameras, but I think you should get familiar with the 300D before judging it. I won't argue with the fact the pictures you posted tend to favor the D100 and here's why:

1. The Digital Rebel has 7 AF points spaced widely apart with a 35 zones evaluative metering mapped behind theses focusing points which are automatically selected by the camera, or the photographer (ie you). In all three cases pictures that you've posted it looks like the camera has picked the right most sensors (just because it has more contrasting details) instead of the other 6 (mostly flat color or black). Again clearly the area that the camera has focused on is well exposed as compared to the other shot where again the left most sensor is picked!

2. The D100 has 5 AF points arranged in a tighter grouping along the center area with an 'X-shaped' metering zones loosely defined around theses 5 AF sensors which Nikon called Matrix metering. The D100 will clearly always favor the center area of the picture by design, whereas the 300D will try to 'explore' the peripheral areas (ie left most and right most which are absent on the D100) When theses outside areas AF are selected, the user will 'perceive' the center area to be either in back focus (or front focus); However if you look at the picture carefully the peripheral areas (which are automatically selected by the outside AF points) of the frame are actually in-focus.

IMO you should get the D100 since you like the way it favors the central focusing more, but that does not make the 300D any less worthy especially with a different set of subjects or if you have overidden the camera to force it to select only the central focusing point over of the wide area mode (ie the two outside AF ones that's not on the D100!) :P

BTW my 10D will behave exactly like the Digital Rebel so don't expect it to to do a better job. Changing AI Focus to either Single or Servo focus will just disable/enable tracking for moving subjects (ie the potential for the camera at selecting the wrong AF area is still there) and won't change the skill of the photographer... Theses cameras are no point and shoot so you have to be smarter than the camera or at least try to get familiar with the camera (ie check which focus point was lit up prior to snaping the picture). 8)
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 9:29 AM   #6
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NHL is correct about the 7 focusing points. Numerous discussions on other boards have addressed that. Once you learn the camera and how to handle it, instead of it handling you, there is no problem. If you want or need to shoot in auto, I've found the best way is to put the camera on P and select the center focus point. I haven't had an out of focus shot since doing that.

The good thing is, both cameras are good so you won't go bad either way. There will be a learning curve with them, especially if you are coming from the P&S world as I did.

Have fun either way.

E.B.
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 10:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric s
Did you 1/2 press the shutter and wait for the focus to lock and then take the picture? What lens did you use? Was it on a tripod? How good was the light (by the looks of the pictures, ok, but not good.)

I do agree that the first one does not look in focus, but its very easy to get out of focus pictures purely by bad technique. Especially if you are used to a point-and-shoot digital camera, because their DOF is very large.

Eric
eric,
i've been using an slr camera for about 7 years and recently bought my d7i a year ago to get into the digital age and i always use it manually except to focus( those evf's don't work very well with m focus). i'm nowhere near pro but, i know how to use a camera(pretty well) and focus it. if you look at the images... the back backs are out of focus but, everything behind them is. one shot(i didnot post) i did, in which i set the camera on the counter to take a longer exp. without the flash and it focused perfect and was exposed well.

feel free to check out my little gallery from DL!
http://www.pbase.com/macaholik/disneyland


thanks for the feedback and thanks NHL and E.B.West for the positive, and comparitive remarks and good comments(300d and d100). yes, i agree both cameras are GREAT but, there is no "perfect" camera out there... they all have their little quirks!!! again, thanks! i'm having fun and learning so much more about dslrs the more i play with 'em, and i know i'll be happy with whatever camera i choose.
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 12:16 PM   #8
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I am glad to hear you know what you are doing. It helps eliminate the mistakes that some make while trying out their first SLR (film or otherwise.) The people here have a wide variety of experience levels, so it can cause posts like "this doesn't focus correctly" when itís really how they use the equipment. (For example, I caught myself "leaning forward in anticipation of the shot" after I 1/2 pressed the shutter. Needless to say, that really messed up the focus. I didn't realize it until someone looked at a picture or two and suggested the problem. I didnít always do it, so it looked like the camera.)

I have little experience with the 300D, so the hazards of it selecting AI Focusing are interesting. I have the feature in the 10D, but never use it. It sounded like trouble waiting to happen. As they describe it, it sounds like I was right.

Do you have a set of lenses from Nikon or Canon? Around here, the usual answer is ďif youíve invested in a system, you should probably go with that digital body.Ē We still suggest you check out the cameras for the physical match to your hands (and stuff) but the low end DLSRs are so close in functionality that if you have the lenses its usually not worth selling them to switch to get the other body.

Eric
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Old Nov 7, 2003, 12:35 PM   #9
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thanks eric s! i have no lenses yet for either camera. i have a maxxum 400si which is on ebay. so pretty much i can go either way. i'm enjoying handling all the different cameras... you learn that much more than just looking a reviews.
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