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Old Jan 27, 2004, 10:11 AM   #11
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Default DRebel returned twice

Well, I returned the Drebel yesterday due to inconsistent focussing. They gave me a new body in exchange to see if that performed better. The autofocus was still inconsistent, but now the exposure was erratic. I took 6 photos with flash using P mode to see if the focus was any better. 2 of them were underexposed, 2 were over exposed. This is with the exact same settings and exact same subject! Nothing changed but I guess teh flash output.

I really wanted to believe that I could get a sub $1000 DSLR, but I am not willing to accept inconsist focus and exposure. I am very disappoinged. The second DRebel was returned today.

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Old Jan 27, 2004, 10:43 AM   #12
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If you don't post your pictures, we do not know or understand what the "heck" you're talking about, you realy have a thick skin to come up with those conclusions. I 've been shooting with at least over 5 Canon digial rebels with various lenses, I have absolute no experience like that, and I haven't hear any other similar complaints on the DRebel. Here are sample of those pictures I took with the rebel, except the flower is taken by the 10D. There must be something insconsistent with the way you shoot, metering mode and technique and the focusing method.

There is no such thing called luck either, the camera is an useful tool, the question is: do you want to learn to use it or not, it's entirely up to you, luck got noting to do with that...

Anyway, post them away, will discuss what's wrong...


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Old Jan 27, 2004, 8:45 PM   #13
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Sorry, but most of my photos are of the kids and I'd rather not post them. Believe me, the subjects are not in focus and the focus is well in front of the subjects that the AF point indicated it locked on. I even did some test like those described here. The problem was most noticible when I zoomed out to 28 mm.

If I am the first person you have seen complaining about DRebel focus problems then you aren't paying attention. Just look at the other recent thread titled "10D, now I feel cheated by Canon" which contained this link:

Also search this forum or go to www.dpreview.com and do a search on "front focus" or "back focus" on the 300D forum. You will see plenty of complaints about both the D10 and the D300/DRebel. You will also see people swearing that their camera is perfect, so maybe it is a quality control issue.

I have no interest in learning to put up with an unreliable product. That is why I returned mine twice. I would warn others to think twice about purchasing this camera, and definitely buy one that can be returned with no restocking fee.

Caveat emptor.

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Old Jan 28, 2004, 7:43 AM   #14
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You're made your point, but regardless what you said here or what you read about those complaints, there are no creditble facts to support for your conclusions. Canon Rebel is the best selling digitcam in the market right now, if they're unreliable, they can't get to where they're are, you think they can just get to that position by accident?.

I have read hundred posts about the focus problems on 10D and 300D, most of them are -non-sense due to user errors or in-experience SLR users, those who can't or get the focus straight, should never consider to purchase a SLR, it doesn't work the same as those P/S.

Well it's your money to spend, do whatever to make it worth.

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Old Jan 28, 2004, 8:45 AM   #15
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Where do you get the statistics that the DRebel is the top selling digital camera on the market today? That truely would be remarkable for a camera close to $1000.

I wonder how the new Nikon D70 will perform. That is what I am going to try next.

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Old Jan 28, 2004, 9:21 AM   #16
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The D70 is a strip version of the D100, still do not offer the base lower ISO 100, as ISO 200 with its CCD sensor compare to Canon CMOS, subject to produce more noise (as the D100), here are some other hightlights (also the new SB-600 flash is available):

The D70 Outfit comes with a D70 digital SLR camera body and a 18-70mm AF-S DX f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED Zoom-Nikkor Lens. (D70 camera body can also be purchased without the Zoom-Nikkor Lens.)

With 3 frames per second and a Dynamic Buffer that lets you capture up to 144 shots in sequence, you'll capture every special moment you want to photograph.

Featuring a 1/8000 second shutter speed and a synch speed of 1/500 second for flash.

Easy-to-Use Features: Flexible Digital Vari-Program modes, a Nikon-exclusive feature, lets photographers begin shooting right away by setting the camera on a specific auto mode. Portrait, Landscape, Close-Up, Sports, Night Portrait, Night Landscape, Auto.

Versatility: Choose from a variety of file formats, including Nikon's RAW mode (NEF), TIFF, JPEG formats or Nikon's exclusive compressed JPEG + NEF combination.

A Real Turn On! Just switch it on and you're ready to take pictures. No waiting for the camera to start up.

Complex Technology That's Simple to Use: The D70 displays menus with simple or detailed information on a bigger LCD viewing screen.

More Exposure Control: Shoot in any lighting environment with the D70's built-in creative lighting system and 3D Color Matrix meter with 1,005-pixel RGB Sensor.

Type of Camera: Nikon D70, Single-lens reflex digital camera

Effective Pixels: 6.1 million

Image Sensor: RGB CCD, 23.7 x 15.6 mm; total pixels: 6.24 million

Image Size (pixels): 3008 x 2000 [L], 2240 x 1448 [M], 1504 x 1000 [S]

Sensitivity: 200 to 1600 (ISO equivalent) in steps of 1/3 EV

Storage Media: CompactFlash" (CF) Card (Type I and II ) and Microdrive"

Storage System: Compressed NEF (RAW): 12-bit lossless compression, JPEG: JPEG baseline-compliant

File System: Exif 2.21, Compliant DCF 2.0 and DPOF

Storage (Number of: RAW approx. 23, FINE approx. 73, NORMAL approx. 144, BASIC approx. 279, RAW & BASIC approx. 21

White Balance: Auto (TTL white balance with 1,005 pixels RGB sensor), six manual modes with fine-tuning, preset white balance, white balance bracketing possible

LCD Monitor: 1.8-in., 130,000 -dot, low-temperature polysilicon TFT LCD with brightness adjustment

Playback Function: 1 frame: Thumbnail (4 or 9 segments); Magnifying playback; Slide show; Histogram indication; Highlight point display; Auto image rotation

Delete Function: Card format, All frames delete, Selected frames delete

Video Output: Can be selected from NTSC and PAL

Interface: USB: Mass Storage and PTP selectable

Text Input: Up to 36 characters of alphanumeric text input available with LCD monitor and multi-selector; stored in Exif header

Compatible Lenses:
DX Nikkor: All functions supported;
Type G- or D-AF Nikkor: All functions supported;
Micro Nikkor 85mm F2.8D: All functions supported except some exposrue modes;
Other AF Nikkor (excluding lenses for F3AF): All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR;
AI-P Nikkor: All functions supported except 3D Color Matrix Metering, i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash for digital SLR and autofocus;
Non-CPU: Can be used in exposure mode M, but exposure meter does not function; electronic range finder can be used if maximum aperture is f/5.6 or faster.
IX Nikkor Lenses cannot be used.

Picture Angle: Equivalent in 35 mm [135] format is approx. 1.5 times lens focal length

Viewfinder: Fixed-eyelevel penta-Dach-mirror type; built-in diopter adjustment (-1.6 to +0.5 m -1)

Eyepoint: 18 mm (-1.0 m -1)

Focusing Screen: B-type BriteView clear matte screen II with superimposed focus brackets and On-Demand grid lines

Viewfinder Frame Coverage: Approx. 95%

Viewfinder Magnification: Approx. 0.75x with 50 mm lens at infinity; -1.0 m-1

Viewfinder Information: Focus indications, Metering system, AE/FV lock indicator, Shutter speed, Aperture value, Exposure/Exposure compensation indicator,Exposure mode, Flash output level compensation, Exposure compensation, Number of remaining exposures

Autofocus: TTL phase detection by Nikon Multi-CAM900 autofocus module with AF-assist illuminator (approx. 0.5 m to 3.0 m) Detection range: EV -1 to +19 (ISO 100 equivalent, at normal temperature: 20°C/68°F)

Lens Servo: 1) Autofocus (AF): single-servo AF (AF-S); continuous servo AF (AF-C); predictive focus tracking automatically activated according to subject status2) Manual focus (M)

Focus Area: Can be selected from 5 focus areas

AF Area Mode: 1) Single Area AF, 2) Dynamic Area AF,3) Closest Subject Priority Dynamic Area AF

Focus Lock: Focus can be locked by pressing shutter-release button halfway (single-servo AF) or by pressing AE-L/AF-L button

Exposure Metering: TTL full-aperture exposure metering system(1) 3D color matrix metering with 1,005-pixel RGB sensor(2) Center-weighted: Weight of 75% (8mm dia. circle) given to 6, 8, 10, or 13 mm dia. circle in center of frame, or weighting based on average of entire frame(3) Spot: Meters 2.3 mm dia. circle (about 1% of frame) centered on active focus area

Exposure Metering: 1) EV 0 to 20 (3D color matrix or center-weighted metering)2) EV 2 to 20 (spot metering) (ISO 100 equivalent, f/1.4 lens, 20°C/68°F)

Exposure Meter Coupling: CPU coupling

Exposure Mode: Digital Vari-Program ( Auto, Portrait, Landscape, Close up, Sports, Night landscape, Night portrait),programmed auto [P] with flexible program; shutter-priority auto [S]; aperture priority auto [A]; manual [M]

Exposure Compensation: ±5 EV in increments of 1/3 or 1/2 EV

Auto Exposure Lock: Luminosity locked at detected value with AE-L/AF-L button

Auto Exposure Bracketing: Two or three frames ±2EV in 1/3 or 1/2 steps

Shooting Modes: 1) Single frame shooting mode2) Continuous shooting mode: approx. 3 frames per second3) Self-timer/remote control mode

Shutter: Combined mechanical and CCD electronic shutter,30 to 1/8000 s in steps of 1/3 or 1/2 EV, bulb

Sync Contact: X-contact only; flash synchronization at up to 1/500 second

Flash Control : 1) TTL: TTL flash control by 1,005 pixel RGB sensor Built-in Speedlight: i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash or standard i-TTL flash (spot metering or mode dial set to [M]) SB-800 or 600: i-TTL balanced Fill-Flash or standard i-TTL flash (spot metering)2) Auto aperture: Available with SB-800 and 600 with CPU lens3) Non-TTL Auto: Available with Speedlights such as SB-800, 80DX, 28DX, 28, 27, and 22s4) Range-priority manual available with SB-800 and 600

Flash Sync Mode: 1) Front-Curtain Sync (normal sync), 2) Red-Eye Reduction, 3) Red-Eye Reduction with Slow Sync, 4) Slow Sync, 5) Rear-Curtain Sync

Built-in Speedlight: auto flash with auto pop-up[P], [S], [A], [M]: manual pop-up with button release Guide number (ISO 200/ISO 100, m): approx. 15/11 (manual full 17/12)

Flash Compensation: -3 to +1 EV in increments of 1/3 or 1/2EV

Accessory Shoe: Standard ISO hot-shoe contact with safety lock provided

Self-timer: Electronically controlled timer with 2 to 20 second duration

Depth of Field Preview: When CPU lens is attached, lens aperture can be stopped down and previewed by pressing the preview button

Remote Control: ML-L3 wireless remote controller (optional)

Power Source: One rechargeable Nikon Li-ion Battery EN-EL3;Three CR2 lithium batteries (with supplied CR2 Battery Holder MS-D70) AC Adapter EH-5 (optional)

Tripod Socket: 1/4 inch (ISO1222)

Dimensions (W x H x D): Approx. 5.5 x 4.4 x 3.1 inches

Weight (without battery): Approx. 21 oz without battery, memory card, body cap, or monitor cover

Strap, Body cap, Eyepiece cap, LCD monitor cover, Video cable, USB cable, Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL3, Quick Charger MH-18, PictureProject CD-ROM, CR2 Battery Holder MS-D70

Optional Accessories: Rechargeable Li-ion Battery EN-EL3, Multi Charger MH-19, Quick Charger MH-18, AC Adapter EH-5, Speedlight SB-800/600, Nikon Capture 4 (ver.4.1) Software, Semi-Soft Case CF-D70, Remote Controller ML-L3, CompactFlash" Card
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Old Jan 28, 2004, 6:27 PM   #17
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Sorry, but most of my photos are of the kids and I'd rather not post them.
Well, perhaps you might then post the ones that are "not" of your kids (I assume that most means not all). Just a couple would do.

I'd like to see just exactly what you mean by out of focus.
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Old Jan 30, 2004, 9:40 PM   #18
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OK, I finally got around to posting one of the test images. I used center point AF and it indicated that the cell phone was in focus. See for yourself that the field of focus is cobnsiderably in front of the subject that the AF indicated.


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Old Jan 30, 2004, 11:12 PM   #19
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Thanks unclewillie for the shot. All I can say is that I've never experienced what you are experiencing with my Rebel. I just took some outdoor shots in poor light, using AF and relying completely on it for focus. Other shots with this camera have given me complete faith in the sensor. Perhaps it's your lenses, or you have broken the mold and been given 2 cameras in a row that should have been eliminated via quality control.

Go here to see the 2 cars shots I made as well as a few others that are all quite nicely in focus:


I've got basketball shots as well, with the Rebel, where I rely completely on the AF sensor to get my shots. Go here to see some of those:


I wish you well in your quest for a camera but I'm a bit mystified at your experience with the Rebel. I've experienced the exact opposite myself.

Cheers, and good luck!
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