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Old Jul 17, 2004, 1:44 AM   #1
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This will be my first digital slr. I have a 13 year old eos with a 50mm 1.8 and a 35-80 zoom. I am looking for a digital slr and a new film body. I was looking at the 10D and Elan 7N. Is this overkill for a newbie? Would I be better off with a Digital Rebel and a Rebel Ti and spend the rest on better lenses?
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Old Jul 17, 2004, 5:23 AM   #2
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This question comes up quite often.

Basically the Rebel and the 10D are very similar as they are built on the same sensor and all of the major components. The primary difference (as you will hear many times)

* The 10D has a metal body vs Rebels Polycarbonate. There have been many threads on this topic alone.

Evidently there are thousands of Photojournalists out there who require a metal body to help protect the camera as they cover shooting wars and natural disasters all over the world.

* The 10D can shoot a burst of 9 shots before the buffer is full, the Rebel can shoot 4 shots in a burst.

* They both use the same sensor and have the same 6.3 megapixel resolution.

* Both use the same EF type lens mount (if your old Canon lenses are EF type then you can use them on either)

* Retail price difference is about $500, although this is coming down rapidly.

Personally, I own the DigitalRebel and enjoy it very, very much. I have a a little over 4000 shots in about 10months and have enjoyed perfect performance from it.

I use it for pesonal and sem-professional shoots.

You will probably get a ton of responses that degenerate into squabbles, but it will be first hand opinions.

Good Shooting - Jon F.
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Old Jul 17, 2004, 6:02 AM   #3
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totalnewbie wrote:
Would I be better off with a Digital Rebel and a Rebel Ti and spend the rest on better lenses?
Actually the "spend the rest on better lenses" part will get a ton more of responses and will degenerate into squabbles... :lol:

I also like to add the followings to the previous comments:

1. There's a weight benefit in the DRebel in that it's both lighter and smaller over the 10D not only because of the construction difference, but the lighter silvered mirrors also helps over the glass prism.

2. The biggest difference however lies in the amount of customizations and overiding controls... but as long as you keep either camera on Auto, they operate the same way: just Point & Shoot (In this mode however, both cameras may be overkill)!
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Old Jul 17, 2004, 6:50 AM   #4
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Hey! :-)

Actually, both are good cameras.

The DRebel does lack some controls that the 10D has.

You cannot control the metering options. The camera selects different metering depending upon the mode your in.

You cannot control the focusing modes either.

The DRebel does tend to do more hand holding then the 10D. This will probably make a difference in which camera you may decide on.

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Old Jul 17, 2004, 10:35 AM   #5
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I've had and used both (1000s of shots on both).

Picture quality -- a wash. Check out http://www.pbase.com/gshiomi for my (small) galleries. Look at the pics at "Original" and I doubt you'd be able to tell which were 10D and which were Rebel.

Durability -- obvious win to the 10D. But unless you plan on sitting on your Rebel, it's pretty sturdy. Although anecdotal experiences seem to indicate that a 10D will last more shots than a Rebel (although usually it's at 10,000+ shots at least).

Buffer -- 9 frames vs. 4 frames, gives the win to the 10D. I've actually had it make a difference to me, when taking shots of a wedding procession. When it got to the flower-girl....buffer full and I missed a really nice shot. Might not be as big a deal if you shoot JPG, but if you shoot RAW like me...makes a difference IMHO.

Flexibility -- As noted, 10D allows you to select the focus mode (One Shot, AI Servo, AI AF), Metering and has a bunch of custom functions. The Rebel gets SOME of these with a Hack. Although even with the Hack, you won't get an LCD display showing you the Focus mode etc. The 10D body was built to support the 10D firmware, the Rebel/300D body was not.

Picture View -- Rebel/300D is better IMHO. One thing I miss from the Rebel is the picture view -- the 10D has the annoying "shot it low-res, then show it high-res" viewing system. Rebel shows you high-res from the start. Although I don't believe the Rebel has thumbnail view...which is kinda useless considering the size of the 10D/300D LCD screen.

Cost of Add-ons -- Rebel/300D wins here. The wired-remote trigger is 1/2 price for the Rebel as the 10D. I have no idea if there is any performance difference. Same holds true for the battery-grip. The Rebel's battery-grip is 1/2 price of the BG-ED3 that the 10D uses.

User-Interface -- The LCD on the top of the body rather than the back, the additional buttons on the top of the body and the additional thumb-wheel in the back makes the 10D a big winner for me. Others may disagree, but I have found that my ability to change settings etc. on the fly has been made much easier with the 10D. The thumbwheel alone is magic to me. The LCD on top just seems like the right spot as well.

Viewfinder -- Pentaprism on the 10D does seem a bit brighter than the Pentamirror on the Rebel/300D. But that's completely my opinion. Also, the squares that light for AF on the 10D are nicer than the dots that light up on the Rebel/300D. Again...very opinion based.

Noise -- The first thing I noticed when trying out the 10D at the store was the much more subdued/refined sound of the 10D mirror slap/shutter click. Rebel/300D is definitely louder, and you feel it more in the body (partially because of the ligher body of the Rebel).

Built-in Flash -- Rebel flash is up higher than the 10D...better for avoiding Redeye and keeping longer lenses from interfering with the flash. The 10D flash is just too low on the body. However, the 10D gives flash exposure compensation, and you can set the 10D flash to only act as a low-light focussing aid rather than as a flash and focussing aid. The hack on the Rebel will give you FEC (although, as noted before, the LCD doesn't fully support this so it isn't as elegant on the Rebel/300D) but I believe still doesn't allow you to make the flash a focussing-aid only.

Cost -- Rebel is cheaper, and has a kit lens that is decent, which adds very little to the cost.

Weight -- Rebel is lighter, although I like the added heft of the 10D. Again, pure opinion for this difference.

So there you go, my opinions in a nutshell. I had the Rebel, took a ton of shots with it, had the opportunity (right around the time of the price drop) to sell the Rebel, and buy the 10D at a minimal loss. Really, I should have bought the 10D from the start.

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Old Jul 17, 2004, 5:01 PM   #6
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Get the 10D...

I looked at the Rebel. Felt like a handful of air to me. In many ways as the other posts mention, it is probably very much the same end result...

Just feels really cheezy for a grand in my opinion.
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Old Jul 19, 2004, 5:20 PM   #7
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I was in pretty much the same boat as you 'totalnewbie'.But i went for the Rebel and used money left over to get kitted out(2x512 Kingston CF cards,90-300mm usm lense,decent tripod,extra battery and a good bag to put it all in).
I upgraded from a Fuji 602 zoom which suffered from barrel distortion and an anoying lcd view finder. I've had my rebel for 2 weeks now and still feel like a kid at xmas everyime i go outside the front door with it. I'm sure which ever one you choose you wont be dissapointed. Let us know how you get on.
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Old Jul 19, 2004, 5:42 PM   #8
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After looking at Rebel and 10D, I decided to go for 10D. 10D is my first SLR, I was (still) using panasonic FZ1 for bird shots.

My reasons to go with 10D.

1. rebel felt cheap (just personal preference) compared to 10D.

2. Rebel only has 1 dial while on 10D 2 dials. And more buttons. When you are shooting, you want quick access to change settings.

3. LCD on top helps like other mentioned.

4. I don't do landscape but wanted the option of mirror lock up which is not there on Rebel.

5. Metering modes. On rebel, you can only do certain things in certain modes. I like 9 image buffer (RAW) on 10D.

6. Coming from FZ1, 10D is HEAVY but after using it for 3 weeks, I think weight helps particulary if you using heavy glass. Right now I am using 100-400L IS and it feels a bit front heavy with 10D. With Rebel, it would have been too much front heavy (just IMHO).

If you can afford the money, I will say go for 10D. People say, you can always change the body later on. I am not sure, how often you buy new bodies.
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Old Jul 22, 2004, 5:05 AM   #9
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I was looking for my first DSLR to replace a Sony F717. I after a lot of looking around and research, I decided on the Digital Rebel. Depending on how advanced you want to become, the Digital Rebel can handle most anything. I also have a ElanII, that has been sitting since I bought the Rebel. True, there are things that the 10D can do that the rebel can't, but if you look at it like that, why not just get the EOS 1Ds. It does some things that the 10D can't do. I know that's a big difference, but it all depends on what you are wanting out of a camera. If you look around at these posts and also take a look at some of the photos that have been taken with each camera, I think you'll see that it's more a matter of preference than performance.

Good luck and by the way, i love my Rebel.

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Old Jul 22, 2004, 7:09 AM   #10
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True, there are things that the 10D can do that the rebel can't, but if you look at it like that, why not just get the EOS 1Ds.
300D vs. 10D = a couple hundred dollars difference
10D vs. 1Ds = several thousand dollars difference

The way I look at it, on various forums I regularily see people posting on how they replaced their 300D with a 10D. I know a few on this forum have done this as well. Whatever anyone does, they have to try both the 10D and the 300D at the store before they make their purchase. The user-interface of the 10D just feels right for me. For others this may not be the case, but many agree with me.

But you are right in terms of preference vs. performance. The 10D:

1) Will not get you better AF
2) Will not increase your resolution

But, on the flip side, the 10D:

1) Will give you greater durability
2) Will give you a brighter viewfinder
3) Will improve your user interface, making it easier to make adjustments on the fly
4) Will give you a larger buffer, essential for shooting action, especially in RAW
5) Will give you greater flexibility
6) Will give you certain features without requiring a hack

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