Steve'sDigicams

odin7 · Jan 4, 2008, 9:08 PM

Steve - I just bought a Canon S5IS from probably the biggest distributer online. (starts with an "A") So this is no cheap fly by night company selling knock-offs. Although up until now all the S5ISs I have looked at were Made in Japan. the one that was shipped to me was Made in China. The price I paid was about 20% off the current retail store price. I know you may tell me this camera is backed by the Canon name and the same quality control and materials go into it,...etc.,etc. However, I just can't bring myself to believe it. I have a nagging sense that in transitioning the manufacturing of this camera to a Chinese plant, Canon may be cutting more than labor rates. The plastic body feels flimsier, and the so called "ultrasonic" mechanisms make audible noise, (I am not talking about the Zoom here, I'm taking about internal adjustments that are actually audible - call it the "clunkiness" factor)
Let me make a proposal, I would like to see you obtain an S5IS camera Made in Japan and do an extensive comparison with the new Made in China version. I would like to hear from you that these cameras are being held to the same material, component, manufacturing and quality standards as an exact same model should be. Again, I would like you to dispel this nagging feeling with some good old A to B testing and visual/auditory comparisons. Are these identical cameras or not? Since this appears to be a trend of off-loading the last manufacturing runs of a model into Chinese plants, your reviews of a model may become invalid if a company's quality control is not maintained.

On a phone call to Canon, the rep assured me there is a Canon plant in China, but he was not able to provide any further details.

odin7 · Feb 20, 2008, 9:52 AM

Steve and staff -
After more than a month of waiting for a reply from you, I am very disappointed that there is nothing from you. Except for moved posts, mine is the only one that goes unanswered. I believe this is a very valid question that needs to be addressed - Are camera companies like Canon playing a marketing game? This can be done by starting a line with good specs and made in Japan quality at premium prices, getting good reviews and then going for profitable quantity sales by cutting specs and quality and switching the end runs to a Chinese plant ? Why are you so scared to answer this? Your silence speaks volumes to me. :?

steve · Feb 20, 2008, 11:36 AM

Your post did not go unnoticed here. We are not aware of any camera company conducting business as you have outlined. Our reviews are performed on production models off the line and we stand by ourwork.

odin7 · Feb 20, 2008, 11:53 AM

Is it too much to ask to rerun some critical tests on a current production run "Made in China" S5IS borrowed from a retailer's shelf and compare it to your original results?

steve · Feb 20, 2008, 12:53 PM

As you can imagine this is an impossible request since we do not have the original unit to compare as you have requested. Retailers also do not let us "borrow" units. If you feel there is a problem with your camera I think it best you communicate with Canon directly.

odin7 · Feb 20, 2008, 1:30 PM

Steve - I have great respect for the service you provide in evaluating various camera models. I also recognize that you don't dare bite the hand that feeds you these cameras to evaluate. Therefore, I respond with taking a cue from your photo-icon by smiling and saying "nuts".

odin7 · Feb 22, 2008, 5:50 PM

This may not be directly related to the above discussion, but it is an interesting article, nonetheless:
http://www.popphoto.com/popularphoto...l-or-fake.html
and it asks the question, "Could your next camera be counterfeit?"

odin7 · Feb 27, 2008, 11:30 AM

Steve and Company -
I sure would like to know the relationship between Canon and this Chinese "Manufacturer". Note the Brand name "Canon" doesn't show up on this page.
http://mindian.en.alibaba.com/produc...Shot_S5IS.html

odin7 · Feb 27, 2008, 11:42 AM

Funny - My Canon S5IS has "Canon" displayed on the lens cover. Are these S5IS's being sold like Nike sport shoes - By day going out the front door of the Manufacturer and at night going out the back door with who knows what quality control????
http://mindian.en.alibaba.com/produc...e/showimg.html
Also note the cover is strategically placed over the place where the brand name would show.
Gentlemen now tell me - What game is being played here???

rinniethehun · Feb 27, 2008, 11:56 AM

Give it up - nobody really cares...

the Hun

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Jan 4, 2008, 9:08 PM	#1
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	Steve - I just bought a Canon S5IS from probably the biggest distributer online. (starts with an "A") So this is no cheap fly by night company selling knock-offs. Although up until now all the S5ISs I have looked at were Made in Japan. the one that was shipped to me was Made in China. The price I paid was about 20% off the current retail store price. I know you may tell me this camera is backed by the Canon name and the same quality control and materials go into it,...etc.,etc. However, I just can't bring myself to believe it. I have a nagging sense that in transitioning the manufacturing of this camera to a Chinese plant, Canon may be cutting more than labor rates. The plastic body feels flimsier, and the so called "ultrasonic" mechanisms make audible noise, (I am not talking about the Zoom here, I'm taking about internal adjustments that are actually audible - call it the "clunkiness" factor) Let me make a proposal, I would like to see you obtain an S5IS camera Made in Japan and do an extensive comparison with the new Made in China version. I would like to hear from you that these cameras are being held to the same material, component, manufacturing and quality standards as an exact same model should be. Again, I would like you to dispel this nagging feeling with some good old A to B testing and visual/auditory comparisons. Are these identical cameras or not? Since this appears to be a trend of off-loading the last manufacturing runs of a model into Chinese plants, your reviews of a model may become invalid if a company's quality control is not maintained. On a phone call to Canon, the rep assured me there is a Canon plant in China, but he was not able to provide any further details.

Feb 20, 2008, 9:52 AM	#2
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	Steve and staff - After more than a month of waiting for a reply from you, I am very disappointed that there is nothing from you. Except for moved posts, mine is the only one that goes unanswered. I believe this is a very valid question that needs to be addressed - Are camera companies like Canon playing a marketing game? This can be done by starting a line with good specs and made in Japan quality at premium prices, getting good reviews and then going for profitable quantity sales by cutting specs and quality and switching the end runs to a Chinese plant ? Why are you so scared to answer this? Your silence speaks volumes to me. :?

Feb 20, 2008, 11:36 AM	#3
steve Administrator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,535	Your post did not go unnoticed here. We are not aware of any camera company conducting business as you have outlined. Our reviews are performed on production models off the line and we stand by ourwork.

Feb 20, 2008, 11:53 AM	#4
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	Is it too much to ask to rerun some critical tests on a current production run "Made in China" S5IS borrowed from a retailer's shelf and compare it to your original results?

Feb 20, 2008, 12:53 PM	#5
steve Administrator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,535	As you can imagine this is an impossible request since we do not have the original unit to compare as you have requested. Retailers also do not let us "borrow" units. If you feel there is a problem with your camera I think it best you communicate with Canon directly.

Feb 20, 2008, 1:30 PM	#6
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	Steve - I have great respect for the service you provide in evaluating various camera models. I also recognize that you don't dare bite the hand that feeds you these cameras to evaluate. Therefore, I respond with taking a cue from your photo-icon by smiling and saying "nuts".

Feb 22, 2008, 5:50 PM	#7
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	This may not be directly related to the above discussion, but it is an interesting article, nonetheless: http://www.popphoto.com/popularphoto...l-or-fake.html and it asks the question, "Could your next camera be counterfeit?"

Feb 27, 2008, 11:30 AM	#8
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	Steve and Company - I sure would like to know the relationship between Canon and this Chinese "Manufacturer". Note the Brand name "Canon" doesn't show up on this page. http://mindian.en.alibaba.com/produc...Shot_S5IS.html

Feb 27, 2008, 11:42 AM	#9
odin7 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 11	Funny - My Canon S5IS has "Canon" displayed on the lens cover. Are these S5IS's being sold like Nike sport shoes - By day going out the front door of the Manufacturer and at night going out the back door with who knows what quality control???? http://mindian.en.alibaba.com/produc...e/showimg.html Also note the cover is strategically placed over the place where the brand name would show. Gentlemen now tell me - What game is being played here???

Feb 27, 2008, 11:56 AM	#10
rinniethehun Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,858	Give it up - nobody really cares... the Hun