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Old Aug 14, 2008, 12:22 PM   #11
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Hercules-

You are entirely correct, and I apologize for confusing the issue. One of the Forum Moderators provided some excellent information for you in the parallel thread:

"Hercules, flash or no flash if in Tv and things are too dark for the camera to get an accurate exposure then you will get a blinking aperture value.

For all my indoor flash work I use manual exposure settings..... well the only time I wouldn't is if I'm in a very well illuminated venue and then I can go for Av. For me using Tv is not giving enough control as I'm not setting the aperture so dof could be all over the place.

When using Av with flash attached then the camera will set the shutter speed to give a balanced exposure of the closer subject as well as the background (ambient light). This is where you can get the slower shutter speeds when lighting is low.

I also never use auto ISO as again this takes control away from the photographer. So then what do you need to do when shooting manual with flash.

Lets assume you want a balance exposure then you will need to set the shutter speed, ISO and aperture so that the metering is saying you are exposed correctly and then the flash will fill in nicely. Now this can be pretty slow shutter speeds as already stated, but....... the flash is going to be helping out by freezing the main subject so not always an issue. Usually when shooting a wedding or party where I want some ambient light as well as flash I will under expose a little with the settings then the flash will have more of a freezing effect, so I'm often working with shutter speeds of 1/15th and under exposure but 2/3 (or similar... it depends on the effect I'm looking for). Now working in manual exposure modes you can then increase the shutter speed to what you desire but obviously this will mean under exposure to the background but this is not always an issue. Yes, you can do this in Tv, but if you do then you will always be at the widest aperture for the lens which is not always desirable.

Take this shot as an example, if I had shot with a high shutter speed the background would be black, if shooting with Tv I couldn't have closed down the aperture a little to get a wider dof so they are both sharp (ok so here it's only closed to f5.6 as I was using a wide angle), so give yourself the control and get practising with settings away from the auto ones.If I had used Av then the shutter would have been a lot lower to make the background exposure better, as I selected to under expose as I wanted some detail but not all as it helps to separate the subject."

Here is Mark's photo sample as well.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 14, 2008, 12:43 PM   #12
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mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
Hercules-

You are entirely correct, and I apologize for confusing the issue. One of the Forum Moderators provided some excellent information for you in the parallel thread:

"Hercules, flash or no flash if in Tv and things are too dark for the camera to get an accurate exposure then you will get a blinking aperture value.

For all my indoor flash work I use manual exposure settings..... well the only time I wouldn't is if I'm in a very well illuminated venue and then I can go for Av. For me using Tv is not giving enough control as I'm not setting the aperture so dof could be all over the place.

When using Av with flash attached then the camera will set the shutter speed to give a balanced exposure of the closer subject as well as the background (ambient light). This is where you can get the slower shutter speeds when lighting is low.

I also never use auto ISO as again this takes control away from the photographer. So then what do you need to do when shooting manual with flash.

Lets assume you want a balance exposure then you will need to set the shutter speed, ISO and aperture so that the metering is saying you are exposed correctly and then the flash will fill in nicely. Now this can be pretty slow shutter speeds as already stated, but....... the flash is going to be helping out by freezing the main subject so not always an issue. Usually when shooting a wedding or party where I want some ambient light as well as flash I will under expose a little with the settings then the flash will have more of a freezing effect, so I'm often working with shutter speeds of 1/15th and under exposure but 2/3 (or similar... it depends on the effect I'm looking for). Now working in manual exposure modes you can then increase the shutter speed to what you desire but obviously this will mean under exposure to the background but this is not always an issue. Yes, you can do this in Tv, but if you do then you will always be at the widest aperture for the lens which is not always desirable.

Take this shot as an example, if I had shot with a high shutter speed the background would be black, if shooting with Tv I couldn't have closed down the aperture a little to get a wider dof so they are both sharp (ok so here it's only closed to f5.6 as I was using a wide angle), so give yourself the control and get practising with settings away from the auto ones.If I had used Av then the shutter would have been a lot lower to make the background exposure better, as I selected to under expose as I wanted some detail but not all as it helps to separate the subject."

Here is Mark's photo sample as well.

Sarah Joyce
Ok now were getting somewhere i thought yourself in low light you were getting 1/125th or more shutter speed and that confused me as to where i was getting 1/15th or less, but with those slow shutter speeds won't you have blurry photos without a tripod, because without the 430EX flash you would unless you have IS on
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Old Aug 14, 2008, 1:58 PM   #13
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Hercules-

Any situation seems to have its own considerations, according to Mark. In fact, he seems to speak about accepting a slower shutter speed and depending on the flash to "freeze" the action.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 14, 2008, 7:06 PM   #14
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Hercules-

I did some experimenting with our Canon XT today and again found that I could easily get 1/200th of a second for my shutter speed with my flash photo when I advanced the ISO setting to ISO 400, with the Mode Selector in TV.

Here is a photo sample.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 12:30 AM   #15
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mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
Hercules-

I did some experimenting with our Canon XT today and again found that I could easily get 1/200th of a second for my shutter speed with my flash photo when I advanced the ISO setting to ISO 400, with the Mode Selector in TV.

Here is a photo sample.

Sarah Joyce
Great, but how much light already was in the room? last night i tried a few shots in my house and even in ISO 800 i was only getting 1/8th, so i don't know maybe i am not setting something right in back of the flash unit, click on image

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Old Aug 15, 2008, 10:15 PM   #16
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OK, Hercules-

We want to try to solve your problem. Let's attempt to explore how you have your EX-430 Canon Flash set-up. There is one very critical switch at the very bottom of the back of the EX-430's back plate. It is the switch that sets the EX-430 Flash to operate as an independent flash or as a slave. That switch must be in the OFF position and NOT in the slave position.

Here is a photo of that switch.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 10:22 PM   #17
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OK, Hercules-

We have accomplished Step #1. The balance of the controls on the back of the EX-430 are very straight forward. Look at this photo and you will see the balance of the switches on the back of the EX-430 Flash. Please align your switches to match those in the photo.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 10:34 PM   #18
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OK, Hercules-

We have now completed both Step #1 and Step #2. Here is Step #3:

(1) Set your Canon DSLR to Auto ISO

(2) Set your Canon DSLR Mode Selector to "TV"

(3) Referring to the LCD on the back of your Canon DSLR camera, and using you Command Dial, select your desired shutter speed. I would suggest a shutter speed of no more than 1/125th of a second. CAUTION! If while selecting your desired shutter speed, at any time the display on the LCD begins blinking, STOP! You have exceeded the available shutter speed. Scroll backwards with the Command Dial to next shutter speed setting that does not cause the LCD display to blink. Accept that shutter speed, no matter what it is.

(4) Attempt to take the photo, using that information, and please send me a copy of that photo.

Please do not stop yet, Hercules, we have another test photo to complete, which I will tell you about in the next post.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 10:49 PM   #19
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OK, Hercules-

This is our next test photo that I want you to take.

(1) Set your Canon DSLR camer to Auto ISO

(2) Place the Mode Selector to P for Programed Auto

(3) Please be sure the Canon DSLR camera and the EX-430 Flash are both powered up.

(4) Push the shutter release of the Canon DSLR camera half way down. You should see that the Canon DSLR camera is going to use a shutter speed of 1/60th of a second.

(5) Now take the photo of your subject with your Canon DSLR camera. The shutter should actuate and the EX-430 Flash should also actuate.

(6) Please post a copy of that photo, being sure to mark it "EX-430 Flash in the Program Mode."

With those two sample photos perhaps we can solve the problems that you are currently encountering. I have personally done MULTIPLE PHOTO SAMPLES with both our Canon XT DSLR camera and the Canon S-5 camera with total success.

Many thanks to you personally, Hercules. You have been very patient in striving to solve this problem (as yet unexplained) that you are experiencing.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 12:31 AM   #20
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mtclimber wrote:
Quote:
OK, Hercules-

We have accomplished Step #1. The balance of the controls on the back of the EX-430 are very straight forward. Look at this photo and you will see the balance of the switches on the back of the EX-430 Flash. Please align your switches to match those in the photo.

Sarah Joyce
Thanks Sarah i will do this later, but in step #1 slave is set to off, now in step #2 do you mean align the on/off switch to on and the slave to off that is all i see to do, sorry again
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