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Old Jan 12, 2011, 4:47 PM   #1
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Default 1000 fps video playback software?

Hello, all - new to the forum, and first post. I don't see a category specifically for video software, so I'm hoping this is in the right place.

I work in the engineering department of a company that manufactures high tech robotic equipment that has parts moving in close proximity in multiple planes. It's very useful for us to shoot high-speed video of the equipment in operation to watch the relative motion of the bits and pieces for timing accuracy purposes. Some of these need to be timed down to as low as 1-2 ms.

We purchased a Casio EX-FH20 for its 1000 fps capability. Our plan was to download the video and view in some playback software capable of stepping through the .AVI file one frame at a time.

Except that we're having trouble locating (affordable) software that will do that. Windows Movie Maker can't handle 1000 fps - the best it can do is progress through 1000 frames in 400 increments - unsuitable for us. Media Player is like-wise useless (for this). We tried something called Arcsoft Total Media Theater - no single-step capability.

Casio themselves suggested that we ask you folks on this site for advice. Can anyone advise us on a third-party software package that will allow true, actual single-step viewing of the 1000 fps .AVI file that the Casio produces?

Any help will be REALLY appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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Old Jan 12, 2011, 5:10 PM   #2
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VLC Media Player. It's an open source solution that's available for multiple operating systems. Get it here:

http://www.videolan.org/

After you open a video file and start playing it, you can go to View and check Advanced Controls. Then, you'll find a new icon at the left bottom of the screen that gives you frame by frame playpack. If you use a Mouse Over on the new icons you get by using the Advanced choice, you'll find it.

I just tried it on a 1000fps .avi file from a Casio FH100 and it seems to work OK (each time I click on the new frame by frame icon, I get the next frame in the video). So, it probably works with videos from the FH20, too.
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 9:21 AM   #3
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VLC Media Player. It's an open source solution that's available for multiple operating systems. Get it here:

http://www.videolan.org/

After you open a video file and start playing it, you can go to View and check Advanced Controls. Then, you'll find a new icon at the left bottom of the screen that gives you frame by frame playpack. If you use a Mouse Over on the new icons you get by using the Advanced choice, you'll find it.

I just tried it on a 1000fps .avi file from a Casio FH100 and it seems to work OK (each time I click on the new frame by frame icon, I get the next frame in the video). So, it probably works with videos from the FH20, too.
Thanks - I'll take a look. I appreciate your suggestion.
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 9:29 AM   #4
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VLC is my favorite media player. I use it with both Windows and Linux, since it plays most any media type. It's also free. ;-)

Please let us know if it works for you. Also keep in mind that it's open source (released under the GPL)

http://www.videolan.org/press/2007-1.html

So, if it doesn't work exactly as desired, you could always download the source, modify it and recompile it (just make sure to publish it so that others can take advantage of the enhancements). ;-)
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 12:54 PM   #5
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VLC is my favorite media player. I use it with both Windows and Linux, since it plays most any media type. It's also free. ;-)

Please let us know if it works for you. Also keep in mind that it's open source (released under the GPL)

http://www.videolan.org/press/2007-1.html

So, if it doesn't work exactly as desired, you could always download the source, modify it and recompile it (just make sure to publish it so that others can take advantage of the enhancements). ;-)
Well, it started out with some promise, but fizzled in the heat of testing.

To prove out software packages, we videoed a reliable digital stop watch for a handful of seconds at 1000 fps. I use that video to see if any playback software is actually delivering one click/one frame. If software is delivering one click/one frame, it should take 1000 mouse clicks to advance the video one second.

The VLC Media Player is trying hard, but it ran out of gas. When I reached a start point, say 1.0 seconds via normal-speed playback, I then went to frame-by-frame, as you suggested. It DOES appear to be advancing a frame at a time, using the stop watch advancement as a measuring tool.

However, it will only do it so long. If I try to click too fast, it hangs up. I mean, HANGS UP. It doesn't respond to input on any button or feature. I have to shut it down with Task Manager.

So... I try going REAL SLOW with the clicks, and that improves things, to a point. A very specific point. It will also hang hard at approximately 120 frames of advancement with the frame-by-frame button. I've done it six times, using three different 1000 fps videos to eliminate the 'bad file' variable, and reliably, it hangs after approximately 120 frames, no matter how slowly I try to go.



It would also be nice if it had both reverse and forward frame-by-frame stepping.

I appreciate that this is open source, but I'm not a software developer, so I can't solve the problem.

This is as close as we've gotten so far, so that's an up-stat for sure! For our use, we don't need to view more than about 10-20 milliseconds of video, so the 120 frame problem may not be a problem in actual usage. We'll see.

Thanks again.
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 1:33 PM   #6
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Hangs, huh? I've never seen that behavior from VLC under any operating system, no matter what videos I've played with it. You are trying to play the videos from your hard drive versus trying to access them from a USB port, right? If not, copy them to your hard drive first and see what happens.

What kind of PC (CPU, memory, video card, operating system)?

Those types of things can make a big difference when playing video, as video playback tends to be more demanding on PC resources.

Your antivirus software could also be the culprit (sometimes they will try to scan videos as you're playing them causing problems). So, you may want to try disabling that kind of software temporarily to see what happens.

VLC works fine on my PC with 1000fps video files in both Windows 7 and Linux. But, if your PC is slower, it may have issues.

You may also want to try a Linux distro to see how it behaves.

The latest version of Linux Mint (10) is very nice. It uses an Ubuntu 10.10 base (meaning any of tens of thousands of software packages in the Ubuntu repositories will run on it). Mint uses a custom menu system that is really great, along with custom software manager for installing new software.

Here's a review of Linux Mint 10. It's a really nice Operating System with lots of preinstalled software and codecs. VLC is preinstalled, too.

http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/l...int-julia.html

You'll see download links in this press release about it:

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06357

If you've got less than 4GB, grab the 32 Bit release. Otherwise (4GB or more), use the AMD64 release (it's the 64 bit version for both for Intel and AMD CPUs).

You can use the free version of isorecorder to burn it to DVD (it will require a DVD versus CD).

http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm

After you install isorecorder, if you browse for the Mint 10 .iso file you downloaded using Windows Explorer and "right click" on it. You'll see a new menu choice to "Copy image file to CD/DVD" to burn it to DVD. Then, boot into the DVD and make sure it works OK on your PC (you can run it from DVD without installing it, but it runs slower that way).

If you like it, you'll see an Install Icon on it's desktop you can use to install it to a hard drive (which will allow it to run much faster compared to running it from DVD). You'll see a choice to install it "side by side with another operating system" during the installation. That way, it resizes your Windows partition to make room for it and installs it in a separate partition. Then, each time you reboot your PC, you can choose from either Windows or Linux mint from a boot menu it installs. That way, you can choose the operating system you want to use each time your reboot.

As for modifying the software, if you're a larger engineering firm, someone in your IT dept. probably has a basic understanding of coding and compiling software. So, you may want to check around and see if you may have some resources available that could customize it for you.
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Old Jan 13, 2011, 4:06 PM   #7
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JASC Animation shop
D/L:
http://ftp.jasc.com/pub/en/ani311en.exe
No Key or reg required full version......Will allow editing frame by frame video although you might have to transcode original to a suitable format of avi (uncompressed) or mpeg2 before it will accept it...I have found it can take 100 to 1000 frames at a time depending frame size and available ram memory.

This was an original section of video in 720 HD avi @30fps ...converted to 720 HD mpeg2 @30 fps with Xilisoft and then first 500 frames loaded into animation shop after edit can be saved as an uncompressed avi file or animated gif file

One would think though that the software package that came with the camera would allow high speed editing
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Last edited by musket; Jan 13, 2011 at 4:55 PM.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 9:33 AM   #8
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Hangs, huh? I've never seen that behavior from VLC under any operating system, no matter what videos I've played with it. You are trying to play the videos from your hard drive versus trying to access them from a USB port, right? ...
Thanks for all the thoughts, but it's definitely the app. I spent 20+ years in IS Project Management in high regulatory involvement industries before dumping that career to get back to a more hands-on engineering environment, so I've done way more than my share of large- and small-system software testing - I know a bug when I see one!

My/our machines are not the problem. Everyone in the engineering department runs high-CPU, display, and RAM intensive apps such, including SolidWorks 2010, P-cad, Autocad, and in my case, Photoshop, Framemaker, Visio, etc. They all do fine. We have some high-horsepower machines. And since we're heavily invested in all these apps, going to Linux just to get an open-source app to work just ain't gonna happen, ya know? The app we choose for this needs to run on everyone's machine.

I support open-source as a concept in a big way, but it has its drawbacks - this stuff often doesn't get thoroughly tested. This problem is definitely in the app, and in the single-step section of code.

My semi-educated guess is that this section of code has a flaw in the handling of the buffering or caching. Yesterday, I had four separate instances of VLC running simultaneously, all playing the same 1000 fps video in full-screen mode (on a SyncMaster 220wm). As long as they were playing in normal playback mode, they all ran happily along-side each other as often as I wanted to press 'Play'.

But... as soon as I took any one of the four instances into single-step mode, THAT instance would get to its "I'm full!" point and hang. But all the others hummed along blissfully.

That's not a hardware or OS problem.

Just to try something different, I shot several seconds of plain, vanilla video at 30 fps and 640x480 resolution. That locked up the app in single-step even sooner than the 1000 fps video does. The 1000 fps video is at 224x56 resolution. So each frame of the 1000 fps video takes up less space in the buffer, and therefore, more frames can get viewed and stored before it gets full. The 640x480 resolution video frames fill the buffer faster, and therefore less frames get viewed and stored before it gets full.

But I haven't downloaded and combed through the code yet, and probably won't. So I'm guessing about the cause.

We want an app we can buy, load on several computers in the department, and run without problem. The VLC app shows a lot of promise, but single-step section of the code needs to be sorted out better, including the ability to single-step in both directions. If I had the time myself, I'd probably enjoy chasing it, and I don't have someone I can assign to it (the IS department in this company is part of the Engineering department). All of our regular coders are busy working on our software, as much as a couple of them would love a side project.

So, I may contact the VLC people and pass on what I've run into, but other than that, I'm not going to go any further with it.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and taking the time to type it all up.


Last edited by ricknthedesert; Jan 14, 2011 at 9:46 AM.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 9:37 AM   #9
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JASC Animation shop
Ah! I forgot that app exists! I used to use Paint Shop in my earliest days of photo editing.

The software supplied by Casio is only a viewer. They don't supply an editor, and their tech support people can't even recommend one (I've been on the phone with them).

I'm not looking for an editor either. I just want a viewer that will reliably allow me and the rest of my engineer buddies here to view 1000 pfs video in true single-step mode. I really don't care if the app has editing capability.

But I appreciate your suggestion - I'm going contact Jasc.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 9:42 AM   #10
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You may want to play with some of the preferences, too (and you'll find an advanced button for more choices).

I think it does have some default settings for cache buffers you can change. Ditto for using external codecs instead if the included codecs for AVI aren't doing the job. Ditto for hardware acceleration (and your video drivers may not be "playing nice").

I think you can also start it via some command line switches for verbose mode to help figure out why it's crashing on you. It could also be a bug introduced in a newer version causing it. It looks like I'm using 1.0.5 right this minute (and the latest version is 1.1.5).

I'd hit their forums if obvious settings changes don't fix it. Chances are, someone else ran into the same thing with it at some point.
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