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Old Feb 18, 2003, 4:14 PM   #1
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Default PS7 and messed up EXIF data

I asked about this on the Fred Miranda web site, but no one was able to figure it out, so I’m trying here…

Folks were telling me that with the browser in PS7 I should be able to see full EXIF data, and in particular the ISO data for my images.

But, using PhotoShop, I cannot see the ISO setting used for ANY of my images. In all the EXIF data shown by the browser in PhotoShop, the term ISO does not even appear! Not that it doesn't show the data for ISO... NOTHING about ISO appears.

Ok, using BreezeBrowser, I can see the full EXIF data for images which have NOT been edited and saved by PhotoShop. In the status bar, I see this:

2003/02/14 13:40:56, 7.0 to 28.0mm @ 7mm, 1/50sec f/2.5, Exp:Program, ISO 200, AF:Single AF, WB:Auto, Flash:Off

After editing and saving THAT image in PS, and again looking at it with BreezeBrowser, I get:

2003/02/14 13:40:56, 0.0mm @ 7mm, 1/50sec f/2.5, Exp:, ISO , AF:, WB:, Flash:On

So not only is some EXIF data lost by editing/saving the image in PhotoShop, but the Flash setting changed from Off to On!!!

My tests made me suspect that NO ONE could see that information through PhotoShop! And then someone sent me an image to test, and with his image, I could see all the EXIF data, including ISO, with PhotoShop.

That image did show the ISO information (titled "ISO Speed Ratings" in the PS7 browser) and it continued to show that info even after editing and resaving it. I don't even have such an entry on any of my own images, even though BreezeBrowser does show the correct ISO information for my images.

That image also had an "Author" entry in the EXIF data... I don't have that either.

Under "Exif version", that image showed "0". My images show "0220".

(I’m shooting with a Canon G3 and S230, but I’ve also checked older images taken with G2, G1, S20 and Coolpix 995 and 5000.)

Can anyone help me understand what's going on here?

Tim
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Old Feb 18, 2003, 8:14 PM   #2
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I suspect the root cause is that there really isn't a standard for EXIF data. Every manufacturer seems to have different ways of saving the metadata, at least in part. Seems f/stop, shutter speed, date-time, focal length are fairly standard, but anything much beyond that isn't.

One solution is to use a program like Max Lyons' Thumber to transfer the EXIF data from your original to the photo that has been edited.
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 7:55 AM   #3
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Bill, thanks for your suggestion. I hadn't heard of that program but will check it out.

I understand what you said about every manufacturer appearing to have different ways of saving the metadata, but it seems that there are differences even for the SAME manufacturer! Many folks with Canon DSLR cameras are reporting to me that they have no problem seeing the ISO data from within PS7, but I cannot, even with my very recent Canon G3. And that surprises the heck out of me. I'd have expected Canon to write that info the same way, consistently, at least from cameras produced in the same aproximate time frame.

I just don't get it.
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 8:21 AM   #4
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Exif 2.1 is a standard specified in ISO/IEC 10918-1 for jpeg. If everyone deviate then no application program can be compatible! http://www.pima.net/standards/it10/P...0/Exif_2-1.PDF

Exif 2.2 that was just added under Canon push support print as well: http://www.megapixel.net/cgi-bin/fs_...le-exif22.html

I don't understand your problem yet, but edited pictures from my CP990 and my friend's D60 show exif info just fine under Photoshop 7 file browser! Very weird indeed...
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 11:54 AM   #5
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NHL, thanks for your reply, and it looks like you might have stumbled on the cause of the problems...

Further (yet still more) testing ads to the confusion. It LOOKS LIKE ALL images taken with any of my Canon cameras have a problem with the EXIF data. Images from my past Nikon cameras have no problem with EXIF data...

Here is how I tested. I first looked at the images in BreezeBrowser to see if any ISO data appeared. Always did with my Nikon images. Always did with my Canon images, even when ISO was set to Auto. (I also had various other ISO settings than Auto.) I then looked at the images with PS 7.0.1 and then edited/saved the images and looked again. Nikon images always showed the ISO (and other) EXIF data. Canon images never did. Worse yet, when I edited and saved the Canon images through PS7, even BreezeBrowser no longer showed ISO information and other EXIF data was changed also.

What I don't understand (many things) is why Canon and Nikon cameras both running EXIF version 0210 behaved differently with the display of that data. And why even the latest model Canon cameras don't display that information correctly in PS. Is it a Canon problem or a PhotoShop problem? BreezeBrowser seems to have no problem in displaying the correct information (unless a Canon image is resaved through PS).

For the record, here are the camera images I tested, and the EXIF version being run on each of them:

Nikon CP950 0210
Nikon CP990 0210
Nikon CP995 0210
Nikon 5000 0210

Canon S20 0210
Canon G1 0210
Canon G2 0220
Canon G3 0220
Canon S230 0220

Whose problem is this? Canon's or Adobe's? I would think it's Canon's problem since even with older Canon cameras running EXIF version 0210 the problem exists and it does not exist with the Nikons running the same version.
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 1:07 PM   #6
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Here's a Canon edited picture with all the corresponding exif data, no problem here!


I've also tried with pictures from a Fuji S2... but I did notice the 1/20s shutter speed and no flash on the D60... strange. :? :? :?
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 1:47 PM   #7
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Looks like a nice photo, NHL... too bad it was only a thumbnail!

It is almost too much to believe, but it looks as if Canon's DSLRs do not suffer from the problem but their other digitals do. Amazing.

With your D60 image, you see the ISO; with anything from my G3, G2, G1, S20 or S230, I do not. At least not within PS7. But I do see it with images from my past Nikon digitals (950, 990, 995 and 5000).

I would have expected Canon to either know or not know (consistently) about how to write that EXIF data.

Have you checked to see if any of that EXIF data gets changed if you edit and save the image from PhotoShop? It does for me, for my above-mentioned Canon camera images.

Maybe your 1/20 sec and no flash was actually correct (tripod?).

Thanks for your efforts on this.
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Old Feb 19, 2003, 7:50 PM   #8
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With your D60 image, you see the ISO; with anything from my G3, G2, G1, S20 or S230, I do not. At least not within PS7. But I do see it with images from my past Nikon digitals (950, 990, 995 and 5000).
It's definetly something... check out this S20 picture after editing:



Where did the ISO went? How about thoses other EXIF tags @ the bottom?
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Old Feb 20, 2003, 1:46 PM   #9
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Thanks NHL. Did you notice the flash setting on that image both before and after editing it? Some of mine changed from flash off to flash on just by saving through PS 7.

Yesterday I got the new Adobe Camera Raw software and tried some raw image conversion from my G3. Now things have changed somewhat…

If I take JPEG images with my G3, PS7 still does NOT show the ISO data. (And I mean through the Browser or File|File Info.) But that data does show through BreezeBrowser.

If I take RAW images, and convert to TIFF or JPEG through BreezeBrowser, PS does NOT show the ISO data.

But, if I shoot RAW, and convert with the new Adobe CR, I see the ISO data no matter what I do. (Meaning if I convert to 8 or 16 bit, and if I save the result as a JPEG 2000 (JPF) and from there as a regular JPEG file, I still see the ISO data.) Only difference is that with a JPF I cannot see that info through the Browser in PS – I must use File|File Info to see it.

Anyway, I won’t harp on this anymore. No one but me seems interested in it. I did get a note back from Canon tech support saying they were not aware of this and that they would log it and investigate. It appears to me that the way Canon writes the EXIF data when using JPEG format is non-standard. And if we’re talking about RAW format, then the converter used (BB or CR) seems to make a difference.

Tim
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Old Feb 20, 2003, 2:10 PM   #10
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Yes the flash was correct, as it was an indoor shot... You're right as far as I can confirm it only happens on the Canon point and shoots (ie the S20 example that I had), but not on their dSLR in jpeg.
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