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Old Feb 19, 2007, 3:43 PM   #21
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Yeah, I probably shouldn't have posted this here as it's barely a Hybrid,more of a pure camcorder. I guess, like I mentionned, I was just excited by the possibilities the small form factor with the 10X optical zoom could bring to the hybrid world.

My 2 cents on the MiniDV vs MPEG2 vs MPEG4 thing:you need to consider how well something is encoded. Superbit DVDs use MPEG2 and lookgreat because the content wasencoded using powerful computers that took time with multi-pass analysis of the source.Whereas an MPEG2 camcorder maynot have the best videosimply because it must encode in real-time (notwithstanding the quality of the optics and sensors). Samething with MPEG4,something encoded properly using MPEG4 will look fantastic (look at HD-DVDs), whereas adigicam with limited processing power and real-time encoding might not. One thing is for sure, MPEG2 will beat MiniDVin quality vs file size ratio and MPEG4 will beat both by a long shot.

As real-time processors and encoding get better more cams will eventually move to something like MPEG4, just like most Digicams now use JPEGfor stills.

Considera cam like the Panasonic HDC-SC1, itrecords in true high definition (1920x1080) using AVCHD, a video format using MPEG4 AVC (also called H.264;sameasused on HD-DVD movies), and it does an amazing job! It's actuallyincredible thatthis little device can encodesuch high resolution video that my PC can hardly handle decoding. I'm quite sure this will be the future of camcorders; PCs and storage capacities just need to catch up. :G

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Old Feb 19, 2007, 4:27 PM   #22
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My thoughts exactly.Considering that these pocket cameras have to compress MPEG4 and even MPEG2 in realtime, they ain't doing such a bad job really! If MPEG formats are capable of producing quality video wihout taking up a lot of space then it's no wonder camera manufacturers are dumping DV format. Not that many people outside of enthusiast groups like here do much editing so the fact the MPEG is harder to edit than DV format is of secondary importance to the cheaper consumer cams. I have to confess I don't do a lot of editing myself as it's just too time consuming.

I agree its not a hybrid, but then there isn't a separate SD card format camcorder forum apart from the dedicated Sanyo One, and it's interesting to know what's going on with the fellowSD card devices. It also goes to show that the SD card format is being developed seriously.

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Old Aug 8, 2007, 5:25 PM   #23
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Couple of points if I may. The term hybrid was around for at least since 2005 for video cameras. JVC being a early bird. None had mp3 at that time, only vids and stills. So the extras got added in time.

Also, this was a great thread, many good points brought out!

My thoughts on all this is simply this. I am a photographer and videographer. I have big buly expensive cameras. But I much prefer smaller, lighter cameras because I do not always feel like dragging my D1X and TRV900 out with me to capture the best images possible.

For me compactness is just as important! I have always been this way. Which is why I usually by any miniturized format! I was attracted to hybrids not for the mp3, webcam, voice recorder, etc, but simply the vids and stills in a ultra compact size. I do not care what other features it includes, as long as the vids and stills are the best quality possible in that format.

So for me, models like JVC and Panasonic are verry appealing! As are Sanyo's!

I am totally frustrated that miniDV (TAPE) still out performs the latest and greatest technolgies! But I can see it's days are definitely numbered! FOr me I just want to carry a small light weight, quality built camera that can take decent vids and stills. This makes doing all that more fun!

So keep in mind, we all are attract to hybrids here, but may be for different reasons.
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Old Aug 8, 2007, 9:19 PM   #24
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I'm with you on the hybrid label and it has been a topic of discussion here before. To me a hybrid is a camcorder that is a reasonably good camera or vice versa. After all hybrid just means the fusion of two concepts. I think mp3 got added to the list because most of the cheaper hybrids tended to add it as an extra feature by default. I never use it myself. I have a perfectly good enough separate mp3 player that is small enough not to be a problem carrying as well.

MiniDV outperforms the latest technologies simply because tape has a vast capacity relative to cost, meaning they can fit a decent length of video on it while still maintaining quality. Manufacturers have to balance quality against recording time. No one wants a camcorder that can only record 1 minute of high definition for instance. I'd rather have 30 minutes of video that was GOOD ENOUGH. Yes that's right, good enough and there is a good example of this in the Betamax vs VHS war. VHS won simply because it had the longer recording time, even though Betamax was better. People don't want to be constantly swapping tapes. Of course exceptions happen such as VHS-C and even DVD where recording time is limited but the ability to instantly play the recording in any common VHS or DVD player provides a great convenience to those who are want the minimum hassle and not be bothered with converting between formats etc.

The advantage of miniDV will quite rapidly disappear though. While the idea of a 13GB flash memory card required for 1 hour of DV seemed like an horrendously expensive fantasy not too long ago, it is has already become reality. 8GB have been available for a while and are well under $100 and 16GB have just been released but are not readily available yet. So we already have the capacity of a miniDV tape (That's assuming SP mode of course but with MPEG compression that's not such an issue now) That may seem a lot, but it wasn't that long ago that 1GB cards were far more when they first appeared. In fact I remember the first 1GB Compact Flash cards were easily $1000 a few years back! It seems that every doubling of capacity seems to come out even cheaper initially. In fact it seems to be happening so fast that the 32GB limit of SDHC seems to have been very short sighted. I can only assume there must be some technical obstacle they couldn't overcome for them to set it so low.

With MPEG4 and 8GB there is already the potential already to equal and exceed miniDV quality. The problem is the editing, but I argue that most people DON'T edit their movies, another reason DVD camcorders are still proving popular. I am talking about the general public, not people on these forums or enthusiasts in general.

In fact with MPEG4 recording and the current size of flash memory you could say the point of convenience, recording time and quality has already been reached for many people. Otherwise this forum would not exist and be picking up steam now!
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