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Old Mar 18, 2004, 8:35 AM   #1
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Default Nikon Coolscan V

The Coolscan IV used Digital ICE as a scratch remover, which didn't work on old Kadachromes. The new Coolscan V claims that it uses ICE Advanced. Does anyone know if it does old Chromes or not? Nikon is a bit vague on the subject.

Doug[/b]
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Old Jan 24, 2005, 12:01 PM   #2
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I have the 5000 with ICE4 - I have had good luck with ICE dust/scratch removal on Kodachrome 64. Nikon says there may be blurring from certain Kodachrome films, but I have not observed that as a problem.

If you want to be sure, spring for the 8000 - but I don't think it has a slide feeder.
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Old Jun 18, 2005, 2:03 PM   #3
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Here is some info on the interaction of ICE and kodachromes- leeched from another forum, but it answers questions I've had for several years. Post is a little long but I'm sure it will answer most of your questions;

courtesy of: Kennedy McEwen Jun 2, 7:08 pm

There is a problem scanning Kodachrome, which is a different Kodak film
of course, but this is related to an added feature in high end scanners
rather than the scanning itself.


Most good film scanners these days have a feature which detects and
conceals dirt and defects on the film, usually a version of Kodak's ICE
or a similar technology. This uses a 4th channel in the scanner, in
addition to the normal 3 colour channels, which operates in the
infrared. The dyes of Ektachrome, colour negative and some black and
white (the chromogenic type) films are fairly transparent in the
infrared, so the image in that channel is mainly dirt, scratches and
defects on the film surface itself. By comparing the infrared channel
with the other 3 channels, the ICE algorithm can detect where each of
these defects in the scan is and mask it by cloning information from the
surrounding area, effectively repairing the damage automatically. The
process is entirely transparent to the user, who only needs to select
the function on the scanner driver and wait the additional few seconds
for the result to be processed.


The problem with ICE is that it doesn't work with traditional black and
white film because the developed image on such film is formed from
silver oxide suspended in the emulsion and silver oxide, unlike the
colour dyes, is opaque to the infrared wavelengths used in ICE. In
fact, silver oxide is pretty opaque to most wavelengths up to at least
30um, so there really isn't any possibility of a future development of
the ICE technique coming along to work with traditional black and white
film - there is every possibility that an alternative technique could be
developed, but it won't use the process we know of as ICE today.


So why is ICE a problem with Kodachrome? In common with most other
colour films, Kodachrome starts life as three layers of black and white
emulsion separated by colour filter layers. However, the development of
most other colour films includes a bleach bath which completely removes
all of the developed silver oxide leaving only the colour dyes to form
the image. Kodachrome development does not *always* bleach all of
silver oxide away and some of the darkest and deepest colours *can* have
residual silver oxide in the emulsion - which makes those parts of the
image opaque to the infrared channel of an ICE equipped scanner.
Consequently the ICE algorithm finds large areas of the image which are
apparently defective and attempts to conceal them using the parts of the
image that it finds clean - the result is usually and unacceptable mess
and the only solution is to disable ICE and scan Kodachrome
conventionally.


The reason that I have deliberately emphasised certain words in the
previous paragraph like *always* and *can* is because not all Kodachrome
does have residual silver oxide in the developed emulsion. Although it
has always been called Kodachrome, Kodak have had many versions of the
film and the process. Someone posted the numbers here a while ago, and
whilst I don't recall all of the details I think there have been about
15 or so different versions of the Kodachrome process since 1960. Some
of those processes seem to have left none, or very little, silver oxide
in the developed emulsion, and ICE copes perfectly well with films
developed in those processes. That is why some people report that they
have no problem scanning Kodachrome with ICE, whilst others just despair
every time they try.


One thing that I haven't tried (because I have precious few Kodachrome
slides and none that can be sacrificed) is what would happen if
developed Kodachrome slides were dropped into an E6 bleach-fix bath. It
doesn't do Ektachrome any harm to get additional bleaching since it is a
self limiting process - and it can even be returned to this after the
film has been washed and dried if something has gone wrong with the
process. So there is a chance that Kodachrome would be OK too and it
would remove the silver oxide, making the slide scan-able - obviously
after washing, drying and remounting! Somebody with some scrap
Kodachrome slides might want to try that at the end of an E6 kit life -
but keep the temperature down - I doubt that Kodachrome emulsion will
tolerate E6 process temperatures.

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