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Old Nov 26, 2003, 3:26 PM   #11
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Default Gas fading . .

Common thinking is gas such as ozone can cause shifting of colors on some dye based inks. Thus, it is recommended that for maximum life of a print the print be protected in an albumn or glass frame to minimize exposure to other elements and thereby slow the fading due to airborne contaminants.

The variation of concentration of contaminants around the world is one reason many will see fading on a particular make/model/ink/paper combination sooner or later than others.

Surely there are other factors such as UV exposure (UV index varies geographically as well) and humidity.

I personally take Wilhelm tests with a grain of salt, after all there's no way a lab experiment is going to accurately predict the life expectancy of my prints in my particular location under my real life conditions. That being said, it is reasonable to assume that Wilhelm's tests show trends that need to be considered when selecting a combination.


Some interesting reading (although dated) on the issue:

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,18445,00.asp

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
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Old Dec 1, 2003, 1:29 AM   #12
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Guess what . . . I just had to reprint a Halloween picture of my son for my mother-in-law because of fading. The faded print was pinned to a wall in a room where there is NO direct sunlight. There is humidity and some air freshener stuff in there though. This was a print on Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy that was just 3 weeks old.

I'm EXTREMELY upset about this. I've replaced the photo with one done on Epson paper and will see how long that print lasts. To think I was so excited about this printer (a new Canon i960) that I actually was thinking of getting a higher megapixel camera to match it. Now I'm not so sure . . . I think I'll have to save my $$ for an Epson R800 when that comes out.


On the bright side, I think I've found a good place to test fading due to air contaminants (since UV obviously isn't an issue in that room).


I've got some Red River paper on its way and I'll try that out in that room as well. I'll come back and post my results in this thread after New Years (should be long enough to evaluate if the Epson paper is better than Canon's).
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 1:42 PM   #13
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On the Red River paper, has anyone compared the UltraPro Gloss to the Polar Gloss (and the UltraPro Satin to the Polar Satin)? The UltraPro Gloss goes for $34/100sheets while the Polar Gloss is $60/100sheets. One of the main things I notice on their specs is that the Polar Gloss lists "improved light and gas fastness" while the UltraPro Gloss does not.

For those that use the UltraPro Gloss, have you noticed any problems with color fading on this paper?
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 2:34 PM   #14
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I use the Ultra Pro Gloss 68 lb and have been using for over a year. I have had no problems with fading. I have a dozen prints thumbtacked on my office wall and none have faded. There is no direct sunlight on the photos.
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 3:03 PM   #15
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I just noticed this while searching. This guy tested a bunch of the various papers out there with his Epson printer (the tests are 2 years old now though):

http://members.cox.net/rmeyer9/epson/results.html
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Old Dec 14, 2003, 12:02 AM   #16
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I forgot this thread! Thanks to all for sharing information & suggestions.

Muzzy, I do hope you have better success with different papers. I can very well imagine your disappointment!

I have yet to determine which second printer I will eventually purchase. Initially I considered the i960 but am swaying towards the Epson R800 or Olympus P-440.

By the time more information comes out about these printers, I should have the funds to support my purchase. With good luck, they'll be cheaper, too.

If I go with the Epson, I'll give RedRiver a try. A question, beings the R800 is pigmented ink...this will narrow down paper options, correct?
Does anyone know if pigmented inks can be used on "art" paper, such as canvas?
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Old Jan 20, 2004, 1:10 AM   #17
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Is Kodak printer paper any good?
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 6:41 PM   #18
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Default I have used both Redriver Gloss papers

I have used both RedRiver Ultra Pro Glossy and Polar Gloss. I can not tell much difference in print quality between the two papers but the Polar will most likely out last the Ultra PRo Glossy because of the improved light and gas fastness. However we are looking at between 5-10 years on this paper. The Ultra Pro Gloss is actually a little more glossy than the Poloar Gloss. I have also used the Kodak Ultima paper with my Canon S900 with good results (despite some posts here that it doesn't work). My only complaint with it is that I don't feel it does skins tones as well as the Red River papers. The new Ultima paper that Kodak just announced is claimed to now have 100+ years fade resistance (both light and gas). I will believe that after some more tests. Prints that are fading in a couple of months are mostly likely caused by gas fading, not light fading.

The good news is we may be close to breaking through with dye based printers from an archival standpoint, although the Epson R800 sure looks wonderful.

WJL100
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Old Feb 2, 2004, 8:20 PM   #19
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I use the Polar Gloss and Polar Satin. The differences between the Polar and the Ultra Pro are very subtle. Both good papers with the Canon. And don't forget to download the FREE printer/paper profiles from them if you use Photoshop or any other color management aware software.
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Old Feb 3, 2004, 4:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzy996
I have sample prints of a shot that i've taped to a window under direct sunlight for most of the day.....Thus far (going on 3rd week) I see no fading on any of them. I'm thinking that the fading/color shifting that people see within a few weeks with Canon printers must be due to gas and not UV (but must also depend on the paper).
I suggest you continue your excellent experiment for a year or two, and keep us posted on the state of fade.

I have been inkjet photo printing since April 1999 (so far on an HP710C, on various different papers).

All of the unprotected prints hung on the walls of my house a couple of years ago have faded badly, to a nice sepia tone. The ones in brightest light went first. Those mounted in clip frames under glass have faded too, but most of them are still good enough to leave in place. Those stored in plastic sleeves in total darkness are still as new.

I have just acquired an Epson Stylus Photo 890, which I expect to give better longevity (more, newer inks), and I intend to print a selection of small prints and stick them on a south-facing windowsill as you have done.

I'll try the same with some prints done 'photographically' (on photo printing paper) as well. My experience with 30-40 year old colour prints, even stored in albums, is not good, but the oldest ones will have been on cellulose paper from trees, with traces of chemicals adsorbed on the fibres. I'm hopeful that modern waterproof polymer-base photographic printing paper will last better, if thoroughly processed.

Meanwhile, make sure you keep your original image files from the camea well backed up!
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