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Old Jan 2, 2009, 11:49 AM   #1
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Hello Everyone!

Help!

I have a Nikon D70s, and when I take pictures with it, every now and then I notice a grid pattern embedded in the picture.

When I notice it, it is usually very slight & sometimes I have to zoom into the eyes to see it, but every now and then it is really noticeable.

Like this picture here that I shot of my daughter. (I shot this pict RAW + JPG)

Link to JPG generated from D70s
http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/DSC_1146.JPG

Link to RAW converted to JPG in Photoshop
http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/DSC_1146FromRAW.jpg

(The grid pattern is all over the image, but really noticeable on the white wall behind my daughter. I notice the grid pattern on both my laptop & desktop computer.)

[Actually. Clicking on the 1st pict, and then clicking on the pict to zoom in and looking closely at the skin, I see lots of oddly rendered dots / circles all over my daughter's face where there seems to be horizontal lines rendered into the skin.]

What is happening here & how do I get rid of it. (Preferably in-camera so I don't have a lot of PP to do.) Or is there something wrong with my camera?

I shot this image with off-camera flash, shutter probably 1/125sec, f8 or f11 (can't remember.) and I think I had the Optimize Image to Sharper to try to get some details in the eyes. Camera is Nikon D70s. Lens is Promaster 18-200, which I believe is made by Tamron.

Help Please!

I like the Nikon D70s, but this grid pattern is why I'm not using the Nikon more.

Take care,
Glen



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Old Jan 2, 2009, 9:16 PM   #2
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I'm not seeing it. I've checked on two calibrated monitors and don't see a grid. there is some noise because the pic looks underexposed, and this tends to make noise more prominent, especially in the shadow areas. You could apply noise reduction in post, or even better work on nailing exposure.
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Old Jan 2, 2009, 9:53 PM   #3
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I don't see it either and my monitor is also pretty good...

Are you looking at the picture full size?
[Actually. Clicking on the 1st pict, and then clicking on the pict to zoom in and looking closely at the skin, I see lots of oddly rendered dots / circles all over my daughter's face where there seems to be horizontal lines rendered into the skin.]
-> This could be as a result of the automatic resizing to fit your monitor

Just print the picture out - Most likely the artifact you're seeing is not really there!
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Old Jan 2, 2009, 10:14 PM   #4
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Thanks for the feedback!

I have a third computer here I can check it on & I'm dropping in at my parents.

I'll try it on that computer too.

Take care,
Glen

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Old Jan 2, 2009, 10:44 PM   #5
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Hello,

Again, thanks for the reply.

I went to my third computer just right now and in MS Internet Explorer, I again see this grid pattern.

I went back and opened up the JPG directly from the Nikon and viewed at actual pixels on my laptop & I again saw the odd horizontal lines.

So I zoomed in and the horizontal & vertical lines are actually embedded in the image.

Here is a zoomed-in crop of the JPG (near the nose) where you can see areas where there are some horizontal pattern & some vertical pattern.

http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/DSC_1146Closeup.jpg

I believe its these embedded horizontal & vertical areas that are causing the grid interference pattern when I view the image at particular sizes on my monitor.

Has anyone seen this before? If so, how do you get the camera to stop doing this?

Once again, any help is Greatly, Greatly appreciated!

Take care, yours truly,
Glen


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Old Jan 2, 2009, 11:32 PM   #6
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This crop is beyond the resolution of the picture you had taken. In all seriousness, that would be a huge print for something like that to be seen. Did you make a print and then see what you are seeing on your monitor?

Seems that pixel peeping becomes and obsession after awhile for some and when things are cropped to that extreme with any file from any camera you will find some things that are deemed undesirable.

As mentioned by rjseeney and NHL I don't see what it is that you are seeing. I too have a calibrated monitor as well.

Try a print of this shot. See if you can see it then.
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Old Jan 3, 2009, 6:34 AM   #7
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Hi vIZnquest!

I know it's pixel peeping, but I got this Nikon D70s to test out the Nikon platform to see if I wanted to switch from my Pentax, so when I got the Nikon D70s, I was already pre-disposed to comparing the two of them, which included looking closely at the image quality.

The thing is, I'm not getting this odd grid interference pattern from my Pentax K100D [Also a Sony CCD]. With my Pentax K100D I just get nicely toned images.

So, since I have the choice of two cameras (Nikon D70s & Pentax K100D), I'll pick up and use the one that gives me a better image. [For the subject matter that I shoot & the way I shoot] Which makes the other camera, for me, kinda obsolete.

I guess I was really asking for help to get past this pixel problem, because I like everything else about the Nikon D70s (The amazing built-in spot beam to help autofocus - that's amazing [much faster than the Pentax]), the matrix metering linked with the auto iso (that really works! [more reliable than my Pentax]) and the amazing layout of the buttons (and the double use of the flash pop-up to pop-up the flash & control the flash compensation and curtain mode - too cool! [Less menus to go through than my Pentax]), but I just can't get past this pixel problem.

Here are a few Pentax test shots I am comparing them to . . .

http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/IMGP0065.jpg
http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/IMGP0057b.jpg
http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/IMGP0494b.jpg

When I zoom in (a lot) I don't see this odd pixel problem on these images. Just nice detail.

Even this Pentax shot (of my nephew) which I accidentally underexposed (All my equipment was on manual mode & I was too lazy to grab my light meter to check exposure, so I guessed f11 when I should have been at f 8, didn't have the odd pixels. So I just modified the image & gave it to my sister.

http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/_IGP1828.JPG
http://www.tacticdesigns.com/picts/_IGP1828mod.jpg

I know the Nikon sample I gave was underexposed, but it really showed this pixel problem I have. But even for the properly exposed Nikon shots I am taking, I notice that in the darker areas (especially the eyes), I don't get as much detail as my Pentax. (Similar set-up, same subject).

Is this normal for a Nikon D70s? I guess I was hoping someone would just say, you're using the camera wrong, here are the settings you should play with.

Any additional help or insight is greatly, greatly appreciated.

Take care,
Glen



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Old Jan 3, 2009, 8:48 AM   #8
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If it makes you feel any better Glen, I see the grid pattern in both of the shots in your OP. It appears considerably worse in the RAW conversion.

Oddly enough, when I saved the pics to my HD and opened them in Photo Gallery, the grids were gone...however, the two spots on your lens/sensor are still visible. When I opened the pics in IrfanView, they were back - worse than ever - looks like you took the shot through a screen window! Do you have a filter over your lens? Piece of cheescloth maybe?

Maybe you and I need to go out and buy better monitors, then the grids will go away (LOL).

Just for the heck of it, post those two picks directly to this forum, and see if grids show up.

the Hun

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Old Jan 3, 2009, 11:23 AM   #9
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Hi Rinniethehun!

RE: Do you have a filter over your lens? Piece of cheescloth maybe?

Dope! I forgot to remove the cheesecloth! <grin>

But on a serious note, I even removed the UV filter from the lens the day I shot the above shot, just in case it was robbing the camera of any light at all. So nothing was on the lens at all.

I was just out at my parents right now & I see the same thing viewing the file on MS Internet Explorer on his computer. (Same grid pattern. So I'm 4 for 4 so far with computers seeing the grid pattern.)

I'll try post the images directly. [NOTE: I know if I post it to Flickr, the grid seems to go away, but the JPG file size drops from >700k to <300k when I do that. Something's got to be lost when I do that. <grin>

[NOTE: I just tried to post the JPG images directly to the post, but since the max size is 250k, it refused the JPGs.]

Take care,
Glen



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Old Jan 3, 2009, 11:49 AM   #10
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I see the pattern in the crop that you posted, but as was mentioned, that would take a huge print to actually see the pattern in real life. At normal print sizes, i doubt you'll see this pattern. I've never noticed any of these patterns in my nikon DSLR's (i've shot a D50, D80, and D300). The D70s is pretty long in the tooth but I've never heard of this being an issue. And really, despite the fact that the D70 is a good camera, it's not an indication of how good the Nikon platform is right now.
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