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Old May 10, 2013, 9:30 PM   #21
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I love the D600; big difference in image quality/noise from the D90 (which I also own), especially shooting available light in low light. I generally wasn't happy shooting anything 'slower' than the 85 1.8D with the D90 as I want as fast a shutter speed as possible. For gymnastics, nothing under 1/500th of a second. I still haven't bought a replacement for my old Sigma 70-200 2.8 first generation HSM, but will test it out extensively at wide open when I have the funds to get a Nikkor VR in that range.

I also sometimes add a touch of NoisewareŽ at anything 4000 ISO or above on the D600 depending on the scene - slight loss in sharpness but does a great job on reducing noise. Photoshop plug-in.
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Old May 10, 2013, 9:38 PM   #22
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The pictures I'm taking is meant for the girls, their parents and the club, so I don't have any intentions on ever publishing / posting them myself. If they decide to publish them that's up to them . . . but here are a couple of pictures I took that the club released to a local community magazine.

http://haltonsportsxpress.ca/2013/03...ringers-oh-my/

I'm almost getting the poses, so I figure I can keep working on improving that, but I can see where the cropped sensor is being pushed to the max in this situation, so that's why I'm thinking full frame.
I like your floor shot catching the split jump at full extension.
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Old May 10, 2013, 10:37 PM   #23
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Marcelo, Wizzard -

Thanks for sharing your work; I wish I had more time to just go out and shoot, and a couple better lenses.

I did recently cover a gymnastics meet, D600 w/85 1.8D; vault shots at ISO4000 and 2.2fstop; beam shots at 3200ISO at 2.2, manual exposure. Wish I had the 1.8G for a little more sharpness but work with what I have.
Nice work, Frank...!
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Old May 11, 2013, 12:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Franko170 View Post
I love the D600; big difference in image quality/noise from the D90 (which I also own), especially shooting available light in low light. I generally wasn't happy shooting anything 'slower' than the 85 1.8D with the D90 as I want as fast a shutter speed as possible. For gymnastics, nothing under 1/500th of a second.
I've got a D90 as well and back in 2011 I ended up getting a D5100.

What I'm trying to lock down is how much of an improvement in IQ it is going from cropped (like the D90) to the full frame (like your D600). If you look at DXOMark for sports shooting, it looks like a bit more than 1-stop. So . . . does that mean, motion blur aside, using your 85mm f1.8D lens at iso3200 on your D600 would have about the same noise as using the same lens at iso1600 on your D90?

Or another way to look at it, does that mean if you were at iso3200 with an f1.8 lens on your D90, that using the same lens, you could probably get similar noise at closer to iso6400 on your D600?

Or another way to look at it, When I would hand my D5100 with a Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 (set to f2.8) at iso3200 to my wife to shoot. She would be at 28-30mm most of the time. If I get a cheap Nikon 35mm f1.8 and stick it on that camera, if it works out to be a useable focal length for her (and its able to focus fast enough) , then it should squeeze out a bit more IQ out of that camera, right? Maybe not 1-stop. But potentially something?


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I still haven't bought a replacement for my old Sigma 70-200 2.8 first generation HSM, but will test it out extensively at wide open when I have the funds to get a Nikkor VR in that range.
The reason I'm asking is that with this volunteer project, it was the first year I got to go out on the floor to shoot. So it really opened up where I could sit, so I'm re-exploring what lenses I think might actually let me squeeze a bit more IQ out.

I ended up using my Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 lens, which on the floor is just way too short, even being right at the edge of the floor. So I'm just trying to get a feel for whether a faster 70-200mm f2.8 on a full frame is the way to go for floor. That seems to be a common set-up that I see out there.


Also . . . I looked at the EXIF data on your images. It says there is a compensation of -1. Are you underexposing and bringing it back up in PP? Just really curious.

Thank you!
Glen
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Old May 11, 2013, 12:16 AM   #25
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I like your floor shot catching the split jump at full extension.
Thanks.

One of the few I caught this year. When I was just shooting my daughter, I just learned where poses like this were, but shooting a gymnast where you don't know her routine I find makes it more difficult to anticipate and react to the split jump. It's just so fast. I'm going to have to look harder for some sort of tell, I guess. <grin> Got any suggestions?
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Old May 11, 2013, 12:58 AM   #26
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I've got a D90 as well and back in 2011 I ended up getting a D5100.

What I'm trying to lock down is how much of an improvement in IQ it is going from cropped (like the D90) to the full frame (like your D600). If you look at DXOMark for sports shooting, it looks like a bit more than 1-stop. So . . . does that mean, motion blur aside, using your 85mm f1.8D lens at iso3200 on your D600 would have about the same noise as using the same lens at iso1600 on your D90?

Or another way to look at it, does that mean if you were at iso3200 with an f1.8 lens on your D90, that using the same lens, you could probably get similar noise at closer to iso6400 on your D600?

Or another way to look at it, When I would hand my D5100 with a Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 (set to f2.8) at iso3200 to my wife to shoot. She would be at 28-30mm most of the time. If I get a cheap Nikon 35mm f1.8 and stick it on that camera, if it works out to be a useable focal length for her (and its able to focus fast enough) , then it should squeeze out a bit more IQ out of that camera, right? Maybe not 1-stop. But potentially something?




The reason I'm asking is that with this volunteer project, it was the first year I got to go out on the floor to shoot. So it really opened up where I could sit, so I'm re-exploring what lenses I think might actually let me squeeze a bit more IQ out.

I ended up using my Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 lens, which on the floor is just way too short, even being right at the edge of the floor. So I'm just trying to get a feel for whether a faster 70-200mm f2.8 on a full frame is the way to go for floor. That seems to be a common set-up that I see out there.


Also . . . I looked at the EXIF data on your images. It says there is a compensation of -1. Are you underexposing and bringing it back up in PP? Just really curious.

Thank you!
Glen

The 85 1.8 becomes about a 125-130mm 1.8 on DX; so I lost some reach going full frame (and depth of field), but the image detail and 24 megapixels gives me the option to crop, and still preserve detail. I do intend on getting a Nikon 70-200 2.8 VRI or VRII. As far as I've read and seen here and there online, the Sigmas and Tamrons just aren't as good at the 200mm end vs either Nikon lens (in my opinion, your mileage may vary). The next lens I buy will be either a used VRI or new VRII 70-200 2.8 and it will be used extensively.

The D600 is at least a full stop better in low light (my personal opinion), than any Nikon DX camera.

Another note: one wants to be more sure of their focus on full frame cameras, depth of field comes more into play. The shots I posted are at 2.2 fstop.

As an 'old fart' - when I was shooting film years ago, I had been told it's better to be slightly overexposed if not sure of correct exposure. With digital it seems to be the other way - better to be slightly underexposed if not exactly sure of exposure and detail can be restored post-processing. Shooting in gyms can be tricky as lighting may be good in one area and not in another, also depending on angle of view. Also, the gym lights refresh rate may fool the camera's exposure, so I shoot manual exposure and adjust as I go. I play around with shadow/highlights a little in Photoshop and actually used the dodge tool just a little on the faces in the vault shots. For the vault shots I got lucky to be stationed rather close by without interfering with gymnasts and judges at a Regional meet. And of course the photos are cropped, reduced in size and resolution for posting here.


By the way, my daughter was a gymnast for 12 years, and a Zones champion (2-state area) in YMCA gymnastics on the bars.
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Old May 11, 2013, 2:35 AM   #27
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Default Some Spring Evening Shots

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Old May 11, 2013, 2:40 AM   #28
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Old May 11, 2013, 4:32 AM   #29
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Very nice work, Jeff, first is my fave...!

Here's a few from 2 years back shot at Westport, WA USA...


#1



#2



#3



#4



#5



#6
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Old May 11, 2013, 7:29 AM   #30
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@Jeff -- Beautiful. My fav is #2 of your second post (so second last) with the inclusion of the dock area. Love the colours throughout, but this one with the dock framing the picture, giving the bridge a different scale seems to tell a richer story.

@William -- Nice series. Nice breadth in subject and scale. #3 seems really interesting. I'd be interested to see that in B&W. 'don't really know why. I guess I see lots of interesting shapes, lines, contrast and form. I'm just curious to see if it works as a B&W.

Just my 2 cents.
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