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Old Jan 18, 2005, 11:15 PM   #1
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This use to be a place where one could come for help and guidance. A fun place in which one could find friends of like interests and learn from as well as help others. I have been seeing some distressing changes occurring lately. Changes that are corrupting this special place, with segregation and discrimination for the newcomers, and putting in jeopardy the very fiber that made this place great.

Some are saying… the newcomers should know how to google.

Some are saying… the newcomers should know computers as well as they do.

Some are saying… the newcomers should not ask stupid questions.

Some of the ones who are saying these things are newcomers themselves, and have been fortunate enough to be technically proficient in computers and the Internet.

I for one am a technically proficient individual, with knowledge in electrical/electronics, mechanics, pneumatics, hydraulics, lasers, optics, computer repair & configuration, software development, web development, and other areas of the technical arena.

But there are things that I have never forgotten, and will never forget. There are people out there who are "not" technically proficient. Anyone has the right to buy a digital camera. They may not be aware that being efficient in computers and the Internet is almost a requirement at first.

So what do they do? They come here for a little help. And what do they get? They get treated like an idiot by some, and made to feel like they are lower than the people that they are hoping would help them by some.

And I say again… "by some"

And not… "by all"

There are people reading these threads right now, who are afraid to post anything because they may be made to feel stupid by asking a "stupid question".

What is a "stupid question"? I'll tell you what it is.

A stupid question is… The one you don't ask.

We should all remember that… something that may seem easy to you… might be difficult for someone else. I can imagine how difficult it is for people who are overwhelmed by all this, and find this site and think to themselves… Thank God… I finally found a place to get started. So they post a question which to them may be a very good question, and because it may not be to our high and mighty question standards, we feel they are undeserving of an answer, and should have to go to "digital camera boot camp" before we will even talk to them.

I like to read user reviews on stuff a lot, and I noticed that many people find the manuals very easy to understand, and many find the manuals very difficult to understand, and I would bet a weeks pay that the ones who find it easy are the ones that have some sort of technical proficiency.

I am all for a couple sticky's for newcomers, but not as a rule or a newcomers boot camp, or you are not worthy of talking to me until you reach a certain level. I look forward to seeing the newcomers here, and especially the ones that are starting from scratch. You can actually see the excitement in their posts as they learn and progress.

I will always help them no matter what.

I hope I have not offended anyone with this post, and as I said it is only some that I am talking about, and I am sure they know who they are, as do others.

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Old Jan 18, 2005, 11:45 PM   #2
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well said, bobc. i, like you, am technically oriented, and know about a number of things, from electronics and acoustic imaging to how to replace a head gasket on a 340 V8. not everyone has the same level of knowledge or skill, and we all need to remember that. none of us were born knowing how to use a camera, or a computer; we all had to learn somehow, from someone. some folks pick this stuff up easily, with little effort or coaching; others need the basics explained before they can get off the ground. instead of looking down and new members and treating them like dummies, we should take the opportunity, where we can, to help them learn, so they can get the most from their hobby and theirinvestment (camera) just like the rest of us want to.

i haven't been on this board all that long myself, but i've learned a lot just from reading others' posts, and i've gotten some really good ideas from the photos that have been posted, and occasionally asked a question or twomyself. i don't always answer questions, but it'snot because i'm being a snob - it'sbecause i don't feel particularly qualified to post an answer, and i'd rather remain silent than steer someone wrong.

this board has a lot of talented photographers, and hopefully with some experience and practice, i will be one of them myself someday. photography is an art form, like painting or music, andtakes time and practice tomaster. moderndigital cameras have a lot of horns and whistles, and the technology that makes digital photography possible can be very confusing and intimidating to those who haven't yetlearned the basics. i think we all need to remember that none of us, from the rankest novice to the most experienced camera jockey, is so good that we can't learn something.
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Old Jan 18, 2005, 11:56 PM   #3
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I agree with what you both say. One thing I have learned in life is that when people criticise me, what they say tells me a lot more about them than it does about me.
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:11 AM   #4
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Bobc, Squirl033

I agree with you.
I am a visitor on this site. I didn't create it nor do I run this forum. I simply participate to the extent I feel comfortable. I have a pretty simple philosophy. Treat everyone the way I would like to be treated. Don't judge until you've until you've been that situation. and then Don't Judge.
Best of wishes to everyone. I am not going anywhere. I am going to continue to participate in the same way that I have in the past. Maybe not as often but that has nothing to do with anything anyone else has or hasn't done. It's just a choice for right now. I hope that the new members of this forum will continue to ask questions and post pictures. That is what I think the creators of this website and forum intended. As a last thought on this topic I hope these debates continue but, not to the exclusion of why we all joined.

Ciao for now ,
smac :|
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:13 AM   #5
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i also agree with you both.. and will admit im prob an asker of a so called "stupid question" or two.. im a complete noob at photography but want so badly to become proficient.. i post on deviantart.com in order to get constructive criticism, but its very hard to come by. im glad ive found this board because it seems very helpful.. but am a little intimidated to ask questions as ive seen some harsh answers.. and im decent with computers and technology with computers.. but im overwhelmed with my first time ever camera, the FZ - 20.. i have a lot of learning to do

bob, maybe i will have the priviledge of getting help from you one day
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:20 AM   #6
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pixie0fd00m wrote:
bob, maybe i will have the priviledge of getting help from you one day
Thank you. But you do notneed feel privledged. I am pretty new to digital cameras and photography myself.

I am glad to help within the limits of my limited knowledge.

Best regards m8t...

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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:20 AM   #7
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I am in total agreement with bobc about those who come here to try and learn and may not know the first thing about what they just bought. I searched on this website for quite some time before I decided on a Panasonic camera. I basically took pictures like snapshots for much of the time and then just after coming back from all those great places I got to see and still not knowing much about what I had in my hands I decided to become a member here and start posting and asking questions.

My experience has been a good one but I can see there have been those who have been dealt with a bit of harshness and/or even ridicule. It may be your understanding (this is addressed to those who do this) that it is all in fun but again a new person has no idea what kind of culture they got themselves into if they decide to stick around.I find that this is much more entertaining than any TV show and that you can learn quite a bit and be able to pass it on.

I have been a coach for 24 years and I have had players who weren't proficient in the skills necessary to be a starter on the team. With guidance and encouragement and some extra time put aside to get the individual up to competitive speed I have seen some phenomenal and rewarding instances that made the effort worthwhile. I have coached kids who have made it into major league baseball and the NBA. There are two currently coaching soccer at the college level.

Take the time and remember we all had to start somewhere. What we say or do can make all the difference in the world. I know I have been guilty of some not so nice things here from time to time and I will work on squaring that away. I enjoy this forum and what I have learned, and also, if I can be of any help that is informational or constructive I will give it in a caring and understanding spirit.
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:28 AM   #8
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Thank you all for your wonderful posts. I commend you all on your contributions to this forum, and will always be here for you.

No matter what...:|

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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:56 AM   #9
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Well stated Bobc and others. I myself was intimidated to participate in forum banter not wanting to be scrutinized for my lack of knowledge. But I have found that the knowledge here in this and other forums to be invaluable for learning about photography-film or digital. I remember picking up my first camera, and can honestly say I didn't know the meaning of ISO, EV compensation, aperture priority, or any of the many terms so many used with ease and knowledge. So I started reading-this and other forums. My gosh, what a lot of info I had to absorb. I knew absolutely nothing when I started, other than where to point the camera and press the shutter. But with the help of others in these forums, I'm learning as I go. I always remember B.B. King being asked about how it felt to be the master of the blues, and he replied that he was no master-he was learning everyday. You're always learning if you are involved with any art form. That's why I like this forum so much. The people involved are putting their visions in the form of pictures, and everyone has a different eye. Thank god for that. If we all saw things the same way, we'd be bored to death. So I hope newbies, and vets abound keep posting their pictures. I myself really look forward every day to seeing how other peoples eyes envision. And if the newbies need help, you've come to the right place. Finally(sorry if I'm ranting),I think we all have to remember that nobody owns the forum-it's public and there for anyone to look and participate in......

Ex newbie(maybe I still am- I don't know the graduation date)-thekman.
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 12:56 AM   #10
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Bobc, I agree with you.
"No questions are stupid"

Help each other for no reason

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