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Old Jun 14, 2004, 11:56 AM   #1
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I would like to do some experimenting with the one shot panoramic concept. I've not figured out a way for me to make money with it yet, so i just want to play with the concept.

Both software and hardware ideas are needed!

I've seen the EGG Photo 360 on ebay priced low and have looked at Fisheye Player along with other software and hardware . It does (fisheye player) various type Panoramic images such as Spherical, Cylindrical, Fisheye lens, PAL35/PAL53, Panoramic Mirror.

I like the panormaic mirror idea and the PAL35/PAL53 Fisheye Lens (which i am unable to find any info on except relating to the Fisheye Player). I would like to find the PAL35/PAL53 does anyone know where to buy one? It is my understanding I can get a 52mm or 37mm lens adapter does anyone know what fisheye lens will work with that. I have no urge to re-invent the wheel, i just need some help to get pointed in the right direction. I'm more than willing to post my results and ideas for everyone else to see.

So, if while your reading this you have been experimenting with low cost one shot Panoramic images or if you know where i might go to learn more, please post it here

thanks,
keekoo
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Old Jun 14, 2004, 3:15 PM   #2
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I have been working with a number of software/hardware combinations to produce panoramas and have found that multiple image stitching is the only method that gives me the quality I want. I tried a concave mirror system from VRI with their software and the results were awful.
I use Nikon 990 and 995 with the wide adapter lens and stitch with Panorama Factory. I shoot at maximum size (2048x1536) and save the stitched image at max size then reduce and manipulate the stitched image in Photo Shop to get the best result.
For web display I use the Ptviewer Java Applet
It has taken a couple of year but I now have a steady calling for my services from some local Realtors for their high priced listings as well as some Holiday Resort businesses wanting to display their facilities on their web sites.
I really don't think that there will ever be a booming demand for these services so be careful what you invest in the equipment.

Hope this helps

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Old Jun 16, 2004, 10:00 AM   #3
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I'd suggest spending some time learning how to use Panorama Tools with one of the GUI front-ends (PTGui, PTAssembler, PTMac, Hugin, and couple more). Even if you never stitch a panorama, you will find it usefull with a fish-eye lens - see http://www.philohome.com/barrelpers/barrelpers.htm.

Some other good sites to look at:
http://www.tawbaware.com/
http://www.ptgui.com/
http://hugin.sourceforge.net/
http://www.path.unimelb.edu.au/%7Ebe...ual/index.html

I agree with deexley - no one shot system is ever going to produce resolution much beyond a small web sized image. Since there is a circular image projected onto the sensor, and some of the center is cut out, you lose about half your pixels. In addition, the aspect ratio of a 360 pan taken with a 20mm (equiv) lens is about 1:4. That means with an 8Mp camera the image will have about 1,000 height.

That neglects the fact that some pixels have to be "stretched" in the transformation from circular to rectangular. So the horzontal resolution varies from top to bottom. Gets really sparce when stretching the inner circle to the top/bottom of the rectangle.

I think you would be pushing to print an image even 4" tall from a single shot system.
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Old Jun 18, 2004, 11:26 AM   #4
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I'm also looking in to doing the one-shot method. Steve had a post about the 360-one mirror from Kaiden. I can tell you that the bulk of the real estate panos on the web are done either with a mirror or with ipix, so great image quality is not really the norm, or the demand from what I can tell.

I'm looking at getting the 0-360 Optic. The results look fine for the web, and it happens to work with the camera I have. I've tried stitching with software, but it is a lot more work considering how little people (realtors) want to pay for a virtual tour. You may want to offer both; high res. stitched, AND web quality mirror-shot tours. Having to stitch 12-shots take a good deal of time compared to running an unwrap action and having a complete pano in a minute.

One benefit I can say about stitching is that you can use your flash and adjust light levels later (and pray you can make it look even). With the Mirrors, you are basically stuck with natural light. Though it seems to work for most.
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Old Jun 27, 2004, 11:45 AM   #5
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Thanks deexley, BillDrew and spinshow22 for your ideas and suggestions. I recently stitched together a outdoor shot and got my "feet wet" so to speak. It's up on my isp website. It is not that bad to stitch together, but the one shot idea still holds my interest. I'm doing a lot of web searching on photography and learning alot.

Thanks again,
keekoo
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Old Jan 28, 2005, 2:40 AM   #6
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Deexley wrote:

I have been working with a number of software/hardware combinations to produce panoramas and have found that multiple image stitching is the only method that gives me the quality I want.

Does that mean that working with a normal lens (how many mm's) is even better than a fisheye lens for getting the best result?
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Old Jan 28, 2005, 6:34 AM   #7
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wicer wrote:
Quote:
Does that mean that working with a normal lens (how many mm's) is even better than a fisheye lens for getting the best result?
That depends on what you mean by "best". For higher resolution, yes. To capture motion, no. Take a look at http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/gigapixel.htm.

"how many mm's?" - that depends on the field of view your subject covers and the number of pixels you want in the final image.
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Old Jan 28, 2005, 1:14 PM   #8
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I have a small virtual tour business for local real estate, I've been using the 360 One VR lens from eyesee360.com. Despite what's been said, I've had this lens for over 2 years, and it produces pretty good 360 images. The quality is not really noticeably worse than a multi-shot stitched pano, when using it for "normal" applications, like real estate or tourism. Of course multi-shot stitched panos can be much larger, but take too long to be profitable.

I can take a photo, unwarp it (photowarp 2.5, comes with the lens) and upload it about 2 minutes. I can unwarp hundreds of those images, no stress, and not too noticeable quality difference...

Most of the other images I useare double shot fisheye, with a nikon 4500, still good enough speed/quality/cost.

Keep in mind, you will need a nice camera, at least 6 MP, more is better for one shot. But hands down, convenience wins.


http://www.mechanikos.com/client/011405-02/website/start.html

http://www.mechanikos.com/client/011405-01/website/start.html
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Old Jan 28, 2005, 1:54 PM   #9
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Thanks BillDrew for your answer.

I am interested in making 360 degrees panoramas. The difference Isaw is that when using a normal lensyou geta nice 360 panorama with just littledistortion. When using a fisheye there is more distortion but it ispossible to look up en down the panorama. Is that the difference?

It would be nice when I could use an open-source program. I tried making panoramas withHugin, PTAssembler and Autostitch but I could not reach the quality as I reached with ArcSoft Panorama Maker 3(demoversion) and they were not that easy to work with as well.

It should also be possible to make a 360 Panorama out of 2 Fisheye Photos with Hugin, PTAssembler and Autostitch.Well maybe, but I tried a lot but did not succeed at all. When using PanoWeaver (demoversion) it worked really nice and easy.

You will have much more experience with making panoramas. Is it worth learning much more from the open source programs or should I just buy an alternative.
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Old Jan 28, 2005, 2:09 PM   #10
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Thanks Jamaan for your answer.

So far I thought that the qualityloss of a 360 degrees lens would be too much. You are satisfied with it, so it might come back into my picture as well :-)

- Isn't there too much loss when the wetter is dark and cloudy?

- Don't you have problems with the position (where to stand)?

The 3d Motion Tour looks great. Did you make this with Photowarp 2.5 as well or is this done with an other program? I thought I could enter every room when passing but that is not possible, is it?
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