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Old Dec 15, 2006, 2:51 PM   #11
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One of the problems that camera reviewers have is that there isn't a perfect camera. All cameras are compromises, and by their very nature, reviewers have to find something wrong with every camera - no matter how wonderful. As I recall, one of the cons that dpreview found with the K100 was something really esoteric. While it was probably factual, my impression was that the reviewer (Phil?) was desperate to find something to put down in the "con" column.

While I'm getting real attached to the K10, it isn't a perfect camera for everyone. It will suit some people very well, while others will be disappointed with it. Just my personal opinion, but I think I've shown withmy veryunscientific comparisons I posted, it isn't a huge "wow" better than the K100D when it comes to image quality (not like the difference between a p&s and the DS was). That's going to disappoint some people who are used to (asTom says) that over-processed Canon look.

Some people will be disturbed that the K10 has more noise than the Nikon camera, not paying attention to the fact that its less aggressive in-camera noise reduction keeps greater detail, allowing the user to decide how much detail vs. noise they want to keep - a decision that changes depending on the individual picture.
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 3:06 PM   #12
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Overall seems like a good review; the comments about image sharpness don't seem warranted as when he used adobe raw the images were clearly just as good or better than any of the other cameras in the comparisons.

The highly recommended (just) comes off as a slap in the face to all the people who complained that he didn't review the camera fast enough (despite having done it less than a month after receiving the camera, where it took almost 5 months for the k100d review). that, or highly recommended is the best he can give, and it has a more sarcastic tone than anything else. i cant really tell, that being said, adding that (just) in there seems rather childish. looking purely at his scores, only the d80 got a better one, the k10d beat out the a100, d200 and400d (30d didn't have a final 'score').

and after all is said and done, the camera has even MORE features that i realized it had, which makes me want it THAT MUCH MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a year ago i would've said, why would i want all those buttons on my camera, what do they do?! now, i look at it and am in heaven!!!!!!!!!
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 3:26 PM   #13
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Hey, if he only gave positive comments he wouldn't be much of a reviewer would he

Gotta give the measurbators something to talk about too.

I only read the conclusion and introduction, as I don't care very much for (un)photographic tests ...

I liked this:

With the criticism out of the way we return to the K10D as a 'photographic tool', something it does very well. It's a camera you get used to very quickly and never really leaves you searching for the correct setting or control.
This is true for ALL pentax cameras, and is the main reason why I love my DL so much. It's so intuitive.

What reviewers always seem to underestimate is the power of the focus confirmation with manual focus. I was using my A 50mm the other day amongst some canon and nikon users, and although I said the lens was manual focus only, they kept hearing my camera beeping.

When they asked what it was, I said: "huh? thats just the focus confirmation, what's the problem?"

They were surprised because appearantly Canon and Nikon lack this little tool, and I don't think I'd be half as good (or bad) at MF without it...

The DL might not be as "advanced" or sharp "out of the box" as the competition, but it's a fantastic camera to use. User-friendlyness is everything... (which is why I still wonder why Pentax ever dropped regular TTL after the DS...)
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 4:46 PM   #14
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Sure it would be nice if the in camera processing could produce JPEGs with as much sharpness as can be obtained shooting RAW. But, if this were a Canon that produced slightly softer out of camera JPEGs than the competition, you can be sure Phil would have noted that this is more film like, and that this how most professionals prefer their DSLR images. Thus, if you happened to have a problem with it, the fault, of course, would be with you and your low class, unrefined, bourgoise consumer tastes. But this is a Pentax, so....

The problem is of course not that he points out such flaws. He's doing a good service in pointing out areas where manufacturers ought to be able to improve. The K10D ought to be capable of slightly more when it comes to in camera sharpening when shooting JPEGs. But in the end he is grading on a very strange curve when the A-100 has recently gotten a "comfortable" "highly recommended" rating, and when the D80 was scored as being equal to the K10D in "features" and "build quality".

What exactly does the D80 have again in features that makes up for the lack of IS, dust reduction, LCD preview, and dust and weather sealing? Must be the D-Lighting.

The review itself correctly notes:
As you can see from our quick comparison table below from a price point of view the K10D's primary competitors are the Sony DSLR-A100 and Nikon D80, but also from a target market and feature set point of view this camera is a clear competitor to the significantly more expensive Canon EOS 30D.
And with regard to JPEG sharpness:
That said it's unlikely you'll see this difference in any print up to A3 size
But in his grading, these features are less improtant than something you aren't likely to notice?

The test shots from the review comparing JPEGs shot on the default settings with the D80 and A100 are here:


And yes, the K10D is slightly less sharp. And perhaps there would be a bigger difference comparing shots with in camera sharpening enhanced (a test that probably should have been done if he really wished to emphasize this point). And to be fair, it seems to be emphasized less in the conclusion, but the K10D also fell a bit short of the competition in dynamic range, a factor which I would think might be of as much importance as the slightly soft JPEGs in giving a slightly lower score for image quality.

But are these differences really as significant as the the many advantages of the K10D? If they are, Phil has done a poor job of explaining or demonstrating it, because I'm just not seeing it in his sample or test shots at all.

It is now only 5 months since the review of the A100, 3 months since the review of the D80, and 2 months since the review of the 400D. And it seems to me that Phil's expectations must have increased since then, as he seems to be judging this camera by a higher standard. But, if our standards and expectations for DSLRs have been raised in the past 2 months, I think it can only be the K10D which has raised them.

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Old Dec 15, 2006, 6:26 PM   #15
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Im sure when you show your holiday pics to your family, they're going to say "eeeeeeww look at that poorly implemented demosaicing algorithm" :roll:
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 6:53 PM   #16
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Phil does say - "it's unlikely you'll see this difference in any print up to A3 size, it's a 100% view thing so you have to decide if that's important to you or not".

Well that's me - unlikely to print over A4 never mind A3 and i don't pixel peep, so if this is the only downside to the camera, then it sounds perfect to me.

Perhaps we are at the stage in which most cameras (particularly at the DSLR level) are simplyVERY good and for most of us, reviews are less relevant to us than we believe.

Maybe reviews should start like this - "for all you typical users, this camera is brilliant, for everyone else, read on !!!!

As a final thought, maybe those who have just upgraded from an already decent body, may have gained better images and value by spending the money on a top jolly lens instead.
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 7:10 PM   #17
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I did not say that Dpreview is a Canon/Nikon board. I said the The reviewer is biased torwards Canon/Nikon. As stated by someone else here in this thread Pentax is NOT overly agressive in the way the is processed in the camera. It is left up to the individual to do what they want to the picture to get the results they prefer.

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Old Dec 15, 2006, 8:15 PM   #18
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bluwing wrote:

Dpreview is mostly a Canon/Nikon board.

:| I keed I keed!
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 3:03 AM   #19
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Wow! I'm really surprised at the pentax users' reaction to the dpreview review of the K10. I have been following the pentax forums hoping to learn from faithful users about the pentax dslr's. My impression has always been that you are very level headed and helpful for newbies to the dslr world and not at all defensive about your chosen brand. I have followed reviews on all the top web review sites and found Steve's Forum, Image Rersource, and dpreview to be the best. I waited a long time for an expert review of the k10 and was delighted that dpreview posted theirs today.

I felt the review was extremely measured and fair, as it has been for all the major brands. I have never gotten the perception that dp favors any particular brand, even though I see huge advertising by Pentax on the left margin of it's homepage. I understood exactly what Phil's comments meant when he discussed the sharpening issue and I'm a preschooler when it comes to dslr technology and usage. He was comparing the k10's sharpening of object detail and texture to it's softer rendering of the edges and contours. I welcome the k10's treatment of texture as I have always felt that canon does not sharpen and render texture as well as I would like.

I can easily make out the great renduring of texture on rocks, hair, mortar, feathers, clothing that the k10 produces in the photo samples. It's great. However, when I looked at the long lens wide shots of city buildings in the sample photos, I could see that the outlines on the windows and building edges were slightly soft. Of course anyone could apply sharpening and get a better result.

I waited before ordering the k10 because dynamic range is important to me and I wanted to get a "testable" measurement of that topic. I felt that Phils coverage of the k10 dynamic range was very illuminating. But of course, not everyone considers that important. But let those of use who feel it is have an opportunity to discuss it.

Two weeks ago dpreview reviewed the pentax k100 and gave it a great review and rating. An exptremely positive expose. They felt that camera was great, even though they demonstrated that it's dynamic range was slightly less than comparable dslrs. Read that review before you make a final decision about their take on the Pentax cameras, especially note their praise of the k100 rendering of detail.

DPreview felt that the k10's feature set was beyond it's competitors. But the reviewer was looking for a better jpeg processor, especially when his k100 review felt that that camera was right on the money in it's jpeg images. That's a fair expectation and not just for the consumer user. I can see where a wedding or portrait photographer, a journalist or documentary user of a dslr would need to have a good jpeg picture for quick turn around. It also gives the enthusiast a feeling of confidence that their camera has high quality processing.

But none of these comments or the final rating were unfair or off the chart. They were supported with objective and testable data and explained in an easilly understandable manner. As an oil painter who puts soft and hard edges to good use, I felt that the soft edge comment was a unimportant because we can sharpen edges in photoshop. The strong texture detail of the k10 is a great feature that the owners should be bragging about. I used to think that nikon produced the best testures when compared to canon, but now I feel that pentax wears that crown. That means the pentax users do as well.

Combine that with it's fantastic feature set and as Phil concluded you have a camera with tools that you can do almost anything with. Anyone looking at the processed raw samples on this or any other forum that have come from the k10 will be impressed with the truth in that statement.


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Old Dec 16, 2006, 5:14 AM   #20
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I have been researching the K10d with great interest.

One issue I am worried about as reported in the DPRview test, was a 1 1/2 second time to see the captured image on the LCD.

If it takes 1 1/2 seconds to see EACH image when reviewing on the LCD this is similiar to the older Olympus cameras, and in my opinion a great deal breaker.

If the 1 1/2 second time is only for initial playback, and that playback review is faster then this is not an issue. K10D's owners, please report on this issue.

Now, having put the negatives as I see themaside,how can Phil laud Canon's soft out of camera images, for years now, and then complain about Pentax's K10D out of camera Jpegs not beeing as sharp as they can be?

How can Philalways lean toward less in camera noise reduction in favor of detail in every oneof his camera reviews, and then state the K10D's 1600 noise sample is not as good as Canon or Nikon.

Over the years, Phil has displayed a distinctly clear likeness for Nikon and Leica.

Read his adjectives on his D80 report. See how softly he delivers the bad image news on the Leica M8.

But this is to be expected. He is human just like we are. So I suggest that you throw out any subjective remarks he makes and distill his reviews to the objective issues. And measure how the results would work with your photography.

I have done this with his K10d review.

My 'Conclusion':

The K10D is one heck of a fantastic camera. A camera I must handle again to check out the shutter noise. A camera that I may just buy.


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