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Old May 26, 2009, 3:22 PM   #71
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The last ad I saw from the folks at Golden was a full page spread in Popular Photography which amounted to a mea culpa for doing a poor job at advertising in the past and promising to do better in the future.

Better at what?

Remaining silent, I guess.

I have posted this before, but if it appears often enough, it might get through to someone in the cocoon that Hoya surrouns itself in.

The Codfish lays a million eggs,
while the Helpful Hen lays one,

But the Codfish never cackles
to inform you what she's done.

And so we scorn the Codfish,
and the Helpful Hen we prize,

Which indicates to thoughtful minds
that it pays to advertise.

They advertise their filters, they advertise their binoculars, so why not their cameras?

Last edited by penolta; May 26, 2009 at 3:35 PM.
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Old May 26, 2009, 4:17 PM   #72
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Interesting where the topic is going..., current status of Pentax...the future of Pentax.

BTW sorry for the long post.

Back in the '70's it was common to see many with the Pentax k1000...the everyman's camera...or so it seemed.

Before then in the '60's and the early '70's the Pentax Spotmatic was the camera of the masses...at least that part of the masses that wanted an SLR.

The M42 Pentax screw mount was touted as the 'universal' mount and when Pentax joined the rest of the camera world and went bayonet mount...it promoted the Pentax K bayonet as the new universal mount. Well it didn't go that way.

Over the years there have been changes...as someone else mentioned Nikon went from being 'the' primarily Pro's slr as it was from the '60's to the '90's...to a wider range of product...starting with the intro of the Nikon EM slr back in the late '70's.

Many Nikon purists bemoaned the EM ..ie: Nikon was lowering it's standards...but it was the camera that made the Nikon name more affordable . But it was a good idea from a business sense as the EM and models similar from Nikon really started to make serious inroads on the 'everyman's camera' niche (a big niche) that Pentax had held sway over for many years.

Canon in the '60's was just an also ran in the slr world back in the 1960's. But starting with the F1 and the pro camera system it started in the early '70's, it started to make inroads into Nikon's domination in the pro market and I would say now and for a number of years, Canon has been the king of the pro's...displacing Nikon to the second rung in pro cameras.

But both Nikon and Canon have really built up a tremendous range from intro to top of the line professional cameras.

Pentax has been drifting I feel...at least since after the introduction of the LX...a pro model that while very good, couldn't crack the iron grip that Canon and Nikon have had on this market.

No surprise how could they...Pentax didn't have the range of lenses, accessories that Canikon did and does. So excellent camera that it was, it became largely something that the Pentax advance amateur gravitated towards.

The IMO Pentax really blew it...by not getting into digital as fast or completely as Canikon did....

In 2006 I started thinking about switching to digital.

I went to the camera stores tried out the digital SLR's from Nikon, Pentax and Canon.

I looked at that Panasonic Lumix (can't recall it's model)...the one that looked like a Leica rangefinder...but thought, too pricey, a design dead end,

Pentax just had the istD..I couldn't figure out the name and what's more didn't like it...name or camera. I felt that if this was the best Pentax was going to offer than maybe it was time for me to switch slr systems and go with Nikon or Canon.

I looked at the Nikon D80 and the Nikon D200. Both great cameras...but the D80 felt a bit plastickey...but the D200 was something else. Solid, robust....good MP, I liked the looks and the feel. What a camera. Pricey though.

The Canon 30D also nice, real nice...but I didn't like the starter Canon Rebels..didn't like the name 'Rebel' (still makes me wince) or plastic feeling although most cameras these days, Pentax included are plastickey...just some are more so.

When the Pentax K10D was introduced with all it's features (SR in body, weather sealing, Robust, etc.) I thought this is the camera I've been waiting for and bought one in 2007. I've been happy with it..it's great.

But I came real close to leaving Pentax and going with the Canon 30D.

Many who had Pentax in the film days went to Nikon or Canon.

In my circle one went to the Canon 30D, another to the Nikon D300, another to a Canon 20D and 40D.

I know one other with a new Pentax, a K200D.

I don't see other photographers toting new Pentaxes, just mostly Canon or Nikon.

But then I don't see anyone toting Sony or Olympus out here.

The market seems to be either Nikon or Canon in the DSLR world.

With the corporate world in such a mess, for example with the unbelievable happening ...ie;..GM...probably headed towards bankruptcy...Toyota losing billions in the first quarter of 2009...Sony laying off 1000's well the corporate world seems a bit topsy-turvy as it were.

I don't know what Pentax's sales numbers are..or Sony's or Olympus for that matter, but I wonder if there will be a culling of the herd. Being large, like Nikon or Canon isn't any guarantee...witness the current fate of GM.

Back in the '70's we had the choice of Konica, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda (early on), Mamiya 35mm....Practica , etc....30 odd years ago the market players are reduced.

Hope there won't be a repeat.

But on the other hand...looking at the bright side...Pentax has recently introduced the KM / K2000 (note to Pentax...just use one name world wide) and the K7.

These cameras are on either side of the range...but I think are good marketing moves.

The KM hopefully will regain Pentax's role as the everyman's camera...i.e...the Spotmatic and the K1000.

The K7 will hopefully thrust Pentax into the major leagues with Nikon and Canon...insofar as the advanced / enthusiast market goes.

But as others have said Pentax needs to make itself and it's features known. Start advertising ...follow Canon's lead...work a deal with a pop star ...Canon did....they have (I think) Avril Lavigne promoting Canon as a brand. Great move...make Canon the young people's camera, dominate the youth market...get them brand loyal and the future of Canon is assured.

But Pentax needs to do something to make people aware of what a great camera and lens line they have.

Pontiac did that in the '50's and '60's...they changed their image, re-made the Pontiac from an old man's car to a young man's performance car and they went from about # 8 to # 3 in sales. They also advertised a lot.

However they kind of lost their way in the '70's...meandered for a number of years and now, they will soon be no more.

Last edited by lesmore49; May 26, 2009 at 4:30 PM.
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Old May 26, 2009, 5:14 PM   #73
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Hello people, it's now 2009 and if anyone is serious about photography knows all of the DSLR brands . Pentax does not need to get coach potatoes to see their ads on TV like the IQ Zoom line of the 80's because every photo forum on the planet is talking about the K-7. If I were Pentax I would not spend a dime on trying to get total clueless consumers interested in the K-7 and just post banners on photography websites. IF you think sales make the company just look at GM. BTW the Pentax 645D will be coming out with a 30+mp sensor in the next 12 months for the people that get their cookies dreaming about FF.


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Old May 26, 2009, 8:01 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
Is the D300 water resistant ? Does it have HD video mode ? Does it have HDR mode ? Is it as compact as the K-7 ? The K-7 will make people forget about the D300 when it comes out.
hey lets face facts
we love pentax and the K7 is gonna be a great body
but seriously,
1 the K7 will be no match for the D300
2 weather resistant, i have shot many times with a K1000 and a Minolta 5D in pouring rain and never had a problem
3 HD video, i think if one wants a video camera, he should buy a video camera
4 HDR mode, do think i will ever need it
5 size, they are almost the same
i am on the Amazon list to get the K7, but i am not going to fool myself and say its better than the D300

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Old May 26, 2009, 8:21 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by mtngal View Post
To add to the point JohnG made - Sunday I went over to a really nice camera store in another town. They carry some top quality tripods and have "Pentax" on their window, along with a number of other camera manufacturers. I went in hoping that they might have the DA*200 f2.8 and DA*300 in stock, so I could get a better idea if I could put up with their higher weight and size. They only had one new Pentax lens and a couple of used K-mount lenses. They said that Pentax just doesn't sell well in that particular town. So while the Pentax cameras have been well reviewed, and offer as much or more than other cameras for the same price, it won't matter if people don't buy them.

Pentax has to make inroads with people buying their first dSLR cameras. They have to overcome the idea that the only two camera manufacturers are Nikon and Canon (how many times have I seen posts from people saying they are buying their first dSLR camera and have narrowed it down to the D40 or 60 and the XS. When I ask hikers why they ruled out Pentax, they often come back with the fact they didn't know anything about them).

It also surprises me how many p&s people moving up to dSLR cameras say they want to buy a 5D or D300, even though they don't know anything about what features they might want. So I think Pentax not only needs to make the K-7 an outstanding camera, they also need to have something that will hook new buyers. The weather sealed kit lenses to go with the weather sealed camera is a very good start. I hope that it, plus the more sports-oriented specs will get more people to consider Pentax.
i can relate to that. on my last trip to the U.S, i went to about 5 camera stores, and all they had was canon or nikon and in an abundance.
even back home here, i always hear, why you buy Pentax,

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Old May 26, 2009, 9:16 PM   #76
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After finding out the flash sync is still 1/180th sec I will pass.
Most would not care at all since flash photography is not something they even care about.

In my case it is a good part of what I do for my shooting preferences.

Originally Posted by tacticdesigns View Post

I'm really excited about this camera.

This is the Pentax that I've been waiting for.

Pentax has finally made my upgrade path very clear and simple.

After reading everything out there so far about the K7, I personally find that all my pet peeves about the Pentax platform have disappeared.

I'll have to try out the camera, but I'm pretty sure that this is the camera I'm saving up for. And if it delivers what it is promising, I'm going to add this camera to the list of cameras that I tell friends that they should consider.

1) Auto-focus assist light. Since I have another camera that has this feature, I know I'll really appreciate this finally on a Pentax body. For me, it means that I can use cheap lenses (or super zooms) in low-light situations (such as indoors at night in poorly lit rooms) to capture the fleeting moments of kids running in and out of the view finder.

2) 5.2 Frames per second (up to ~14 RAW images). Again. Instead of taking 2 shots and then waiting and waiting for the camera to be ready for more shots while my daughter runs away, I'll be able to snap off more pictures & hopefully get a keeper. <grin>

3) Better auto-white balance. Hopefully this means less having to tweak the shots after the fact to get the white balance you want. (This was one of the reasons I haven't suggested Pentax to my sister. I didn't want to put her through this torture. I'll have to see if the K7 is in her budget.)

4) And the built-in video. You know, I have a miniDV video camera, that I don't think I've used in the past 5 years? I never think to take it anywhere, so all our video snippets are from our 4 megapixel point-and-shoot. And they are really bad quality. Since I'm used to carrying my dSLR around, I'll definately find myself taking more video snippets of my daughters.

5) And since I'm still on a K100D, for me, the upgrade to all those direct-access buttons and levers, and two command dials is going to be a real treat. And the less noise at higher ISO is going to be sweet.

To me, these are the real world features that I find I want and would really appreciate. And it looks like the K7 is taking a giant step in the right direction.

That's my 2 cents.

Take care, yours truly,
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Old May 26, 2009, 11:17 PM   #77
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I suspect I am like many in this forum. I have what is for me a great deal of money in trying to maximize my Pentax camera through quality lenses. I have:

Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 HSM...... $ 800
Pentax 50-135 f/2.8......$ 750
Sigma 50-500.........$ 1050
Tamron 28-75 f/2.8......$ 250
Sigma 18-50 f/2.8....$ 250
Pentax FA 50 f1.4...$ 200
Sigma 28 f/1.8 $ 250

Plus another 700-800 dollars invested in TC's, MF lenses, etc....all in all...more than four grand invested in K-mount lenses. (all prices approximate)

My mother actually came to my defense in a conversation about my spending on photographic equipment...."You don't play golf, you don't hunt, you don't fish.....this is the first expensive hobby you've ever had...." and my wife had to agree.

For a school teacher married to a retired school teacher, these are significant amounts of money. I can't afford to ditch my Pentax investment and easily switch to Canon or Nikon. Therefore, I have to pin my hopes that Pentax has got it right with the K-7. The K20d is an outstanding camera and I have taken photos that I would not believe I could take with it. However, there are areas in which it has faltered...notably AF performance and burst speed, since I do shoot sports when I can.

I am going to wait to see what real world shooters report with the camera before I order, but I am cautiously optimistic.

I think the K-7 is a critical introduction if Pentax is going to remain viable. There is a paucity of true camera stores in Arkansas and those that exist relegate Pentax gear to a remote corner of the store. I'm not so sure that the corner will still be devoted to Pentax if the K-7 isn't what it is cracked up to be.

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Old May 27, 2009, 5:21 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by dafiryde View Post
hey lets face facts
we love pentax and the K7 is gonna be a great body
but seriously,
1 the K7 will be no match for the D300
2 weather resistant, i have shot many times with a K1000 and a Minolta 5D in pouring rain and never had a problem
3 HD video, i think if one wants a video camera, he should buy a video camera
4 HDR mode, do think i will ever need it
5 size, they are almost the same
i am on the Amazon list to get the K7, but i am not going to fool myself and say its better than the D300

Well I'm not trying to play it smart but from what i read is that the K-7 is a sh*t camera next to the D300 or even the 50D, care to let me know why it wont compete with those cameras? i for 1 have had the 40D and now the K20D and the 40D is not as good as the K20D.
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Old May 27, 2009, 6:05 AM   #79
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im looking forward to seeing some proper reviews, most importantly on the focus and lets forget image quality lol, but if its as good as it looks, ill be getting one
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Old May 27, 2009, 7:22 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by kazuya View Post
im looking forward to seeing some proper reviews, most importantly on the focus and lets forget image quality lol, but if its as good as it looks, ill be getting one
The tough part about seeing reviews on focusing is no professional reviews really do any type of thorough testing on continuous focus - the issue where Pentax focus is lacking. At best you'll see tests with low light focusing - but it's single shot. This isn't limited to Pentax cameras - I've never seen a professional review board or magazine that tests in this way. Usually you have to wait for reports from people that have used gear in the field. The tough thing about that is that person's frame of reference. Do they spend a lot of time shooting Birds in Flight or sports? Or do they once in a blue moon shoot their child or dog running? Tough to get a real indication when you don't do it often. And, there is always a natural inclination when we buy a new camera to think everything about it is better. So, for this aspect of the camera's performance you may have to wait for some guinea pig sports or wildlife shooters who have used the K20D. It would be great to get sports or wildlife shooters who have also used D300 or 50D but it's always tough to get cross-over shooters who are competant sports or wildlife shooters who cross-over from same-era body to same-era body (i.e. not many people who owned a D300 switched to 50D or vice versa).

I think there will be a number of reviews on the other attributes of the camera. And you'll have the first adopters that claim it even makes toast in the morning (and these people exist in every camp) - so you need to ignore them. My advice is - if you're interested in it's focus tracking ability - ask those early adopters to see whole galleries of their shooting not just 1 or 2 shots. The gallery level is where you see the true test of something like focus tracking performance. And look for challenging tests - longer focal lengths at wide apertures not 75mm at f8 where issues with performance can hide. Particularly, look for how the system behaves in low light if you're sports minded.

Again - the advice above applies to all new equipment where focus performance is concerned. Be wary of comments that speak of fast focusing if it only applies to single shot.
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