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Old Sep 13, 2010, 10:25 PM   #11
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Of cause the Kr.. I just think that focus point is't useful.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 2:09 PM   #12
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I've been keeping my eye out recently for Kx prices, specifically a white Kx, or perhaps the new olive color. The white ones seem to be in short supply at the moment and I'm not sure the olive ones have shipped yet (and probably won't be available for a discount since they are going to be a limited edition color). I've been on the fence about getting one, and would only consider it if it were cheap enough AND in white or olive. It's going to be interesting to see if the supply of white Kx's improves soon. Something to consider if that's what you are considering a Kx in a specific color - how available is it?
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 5:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mtngal View Post
The white ones seem to be in short supply at the moment and I'm not sure the olive ones have shipped yeton color).
All colors but purple are listed on the Pentax USA site today as "buy now." There are a number of listings for white ones as low as $449 from lesser known sellers, and around $500 from better known ones (all with a white kit lens, some body only at $499, so get the lens). White ones were out of stock at Pentax a few days ago, but are back in stock now.
If life brings you lemons, you can make lemonade.

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Old Sep 14, 2010, 6:42 PM   #14
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There is not active focus point in viewfinder in K-x, does this effect you much?
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 8:40 PM   #15
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18 months ago, I too had a similar choice between the K20 and the K7. I took the bargain route and have never regretted it. My skills have increased tremendously, and I do still think that I made the right decisions.

As someone starting out, there are many opportunities to spend your money. The body is one place where I believe you can save some dollars. Lenses are the place where you do not want to skimp. So with that in mind, I would certainly consider the Kx. Mtngal has laid out the differences very well. There certainly benefits to the Kr, but it comes at a price. I do think that this is one trimeframe where you can benefit, when new bodies are announced.

You will not know what you are missing if you go the Kx route, however you are going to have a learning curve on any dSLR. For the most part the new features would always be nice, but certainly not critical. The Kx is an extremely capable camera, and it is by no means a stripped down version. In fact it has technology that exceeds the K7 (upgraded autofocus, etc.).

I know its frowned upon, but here is a link to a comparison review on another site....
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 8:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by imut View Post
There is not active focus point in viewfinder in K-x, does this effect you much?
Hi imut,

I think there's been a lot of confusion about the importance of this. For some reason the pro reviewers have picked this out as the great deficiency in this model, but I don't get it.

I'm convinced that the great majority of shooters use the center point only in the great majority of cases. I participate in a number of fora like this, and it always seems like most shooters use center point and recompose. Most of those who prefer manual focus do this especially, since a lot of them have chosen to replace the OEM focusing screen with a split screen, which uses center point MF in a different form. . .

The lack of focus point indicators in the viewfinder is a problem in two instances only, the way I see it. One can be worked around, and the other, I think overemphasizes the importance of the indicators.

The first instance is for shooters who want to always choose the focus point as they shoot at large apertures and short distances with very thin DOF so they feel that focus and recompose doesn't give them the fine focus accuracy that they want. The Kx allows the green button to be programmed to center the focus point in manual select focus point mode. The work around is to recenter the focus point after each shot, and then any focus point is a maximum of three presses of the directional button away. The area of the focus points can be estimated easily with the etchings of the OEM focusing screen, so location is not a problem. Manual selection of focus points is not a technique that one usually uses in situations that require a lot of speed, so the recentering should not be much of a problem from that standpoint. If nothing else, the focus point selection can be done via a display on the LCD if you need to be sure.

The second instance is for shooters who want to use Auto focus point selection, and let the camera choose. I always felt that in this mode, I'm trusting the camera to choose the right focus point, and that sometimes the camera would get it wrong, but that's how it goes when you allow the computer to choose. . . When in this mode, do most people look for the indicator, then confirm that the lens is actually focused on the right thing, then take the shot, or do they point the camera, fully depress the shutter, and just let the camera take the picture? I use multipoint focusing for moving subjects, and just hope that one of the focus points will get a lock, and that the AF system will get it close. In any case, would an indicated focus point really make a difference? For me, it doesn't. . .

My experience with a number of fora like this one is that the focus point indicators actually may have caused more problems than helped. Many people assume the size of the red square is the size of the AF sensor area, when it's actually many times larger. They also assume that when the indicator lights up that the focus is confirmed, but the indicator actually lights up a fraction of a second before the focus is confirmed (focus confirm is the green hexagon at the bottom of the VF). Both of these are responsible for a lot of the user error caused criticisms of the AF system.

I will say that there have been instances where the focus point lighting up has been helpful, but these were few and far between. There have been cases when the camera, mounted on a tripod, was pointed at a very awkward position, where I could barely get my eye to the viewfinder. When the center focus point indicator lit up, it allowed me to see that my eye wasn't even close to square with the viewfinder is so I needed to adjust a bit to better guesstimate the composition of the shot , but that's about it.

If you anticipate that you really need the focus point indicators, and any workarounds are inacequate, then this can be a deal breaker. A lot of Pentax shooters aren't shy about criticizing their cameras, and the Kx is probably one of the best selling models, but I can't remember seeing any major complaints from actual users about the missing focus indicators as a fatal flaw. To test this out for myself, I turned off my focus indicators for the last month -- and after well over 100,000 shots using and getting used to them. . . I didn't miss them at all. . . but this didn't' surprise me since I'm a center point AF focus shooter, so they've really never been important to me. . .

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Old Sep 14, 2010, 10:43 PM   #17
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I agree with Scott that it's not a big deal. For the most part I ignore the red square.

I do use the indicator when I'm shooting macro to let me know when I'm getting close to the focus point, because it DOES light up a bit before you get focus lock. My macro lens is manual focus, so I often set it to 1:1 and then lean in and out a bit until I get focus lock. Since the dof for macro is so small, having the center point light up tells me that I'm really close to the right spot.

Also I've been glad once in a while when I've changed the focus point for some reason and have forgotten that I did so. If I happen to see the square somewhere other than the center it clues me in that I need to change the focus point. I don't think I'd remember to check the LCD for such things, since I rarely take it off center focus point.

I almost never leave it up to the camera to choose the focus point. My camera isn't a mind-reader and playing around with it convinced me that it would choose the wrong thing to focus on more than half the time. I guess that means I'm lousy at composition if I can consistently confuse my camera, or else that the camera isn't real smart about such things.
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 10:56 AM   #18
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Mtngal & Snostorm have covered almost everything that is a major consideration for most people.

Personally; I would wait for the Kr. You may miss a month or two (I know it's tough because the impatience kills you !) and maybe that will hurt a little but in the end I think you will be glad you did for a number of reasons:

a) Improved AF - this is a biggie, make no mistake. If the new engine is anywhere new as good as hoped / expected then this will be a huge leap. Pentax have many advantages but (relatively) slow AF is not one of them. Canikon beats the pants off us and I'd love something closer to their ability - again this could mean many more makable shots that otherwise you would have missed.

b) Bigger screen - as Mtngal said, don't under-estimate the value of not only the size but the quality (it has 4 times the resolution of the Kx !), of the screen.

c) Improved low light ability - the Kx is already excellent in this area but if the Kr is better still then you will get more ambient light shots that would otherwise have been impossible. The K7 offers native 100-3200 whilst the Kr is offering native 200 - 12,800 : that is a massive difference !!

d) re-sale value when you decide to upgrade, being only one iteration behind the curve rather than two.

e) US$200 difference may seem a big deal now - but if you wait you can save for it and I assure you it wouldn't be a big deal once you have the Kr in your hands. Launch price is $800 inc 18-55.

Pentax have done most things right over the last couple of years, and have delivered quality cameras that meet people's needs.
I don't think they are going to lose the plot with the new Kr & K5 and personally I will be one of the first through the door for the K5 (as an upgrade to my K7) when it comes out.
Pentax : 15 Ltd, 77 Ltd, 43/1.9 Ltd, Cosina 55/1.2, DA*300/4, Contax Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8, Raynox 150/250, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.

Nikon : D800, D600, Sigma 500/4.5, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 - 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 - 35/2.0, Nikkor 85/1.8G, Sigma 50/1.4. Nikon x1.4 TC, Sigma x2.0 TC
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