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Old Jun 9, 2002, 12:07 PM   #1
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Default Reservations about the Canon S9000

Last week I took delivery on a S9000 and am favorably impressed with the print quality. I had an Epson 1270 but it was damaged and required replacement. The multiple ink tank system is nice. I have not determined if it is any less expensive yet. On the 1270 when it ran out of one color you got it plus the other colors for around $30. In other words when you ran out of your most used color the ink manufacture replaced it for $30 and gave you the other 4 colors for free. For the S9000 the cost for that scenario is about $60. I think that the cost per volume of ink needs to be 3 times greater for the bundled cartridges than for the separate carts, for the separate carts to be a better deal.

Iím looking for the best print quality, which I think the S9000 has, the cart issue does not deter me from keeping the printer. The paper longevity issue does raise some serious questions. I recently talked to a Canon tech rep. He said that the Canon Photo Paper Pro is the only paper that will provide the 25+year longevity to the prints and that Canon has no plans to produce other paper for the printer. When asked whether the longevity is in the ink or the paper. He said that it is a product of both but mostly it is a special coating in the paper. I have used the Epson Matte Heavyweight with it and find the prints satisfactory but I am unsure as to the longevity of the prints. If the Canon Photo Paper Pro is the only choice that will not fade over an extended period, then I consider this a serious flaw in an otherwise remarkable printer. Please, your thoughts.

Thank you,
Philby
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Old Jun 11, 2002, 3:16 PM   #2
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Default S9000 Longevity and Inks

The S9000 is a great printer indeed. You can relax about the cost per print as compared with Epson. We did a 8x10 print study and the Epson costs about 33% more in dollars to print 100 8x10s as the Canon does.

About print longevity - don't be worried about using another paper and Canon inks, especially when the paper is a matte. Inks are probably 75% of the longevity equation and paper 25%. This can vary of course, depending on where and how the print is stored. If you take care of the print (under glass, plastic or in a book), you will probably approach Canon's estimates on many papers. However, they are probably using a rather liberal reading of their longevity numbers to come up with 25 years. Consider spraying your prints with something like Krylon UV to enhance print life even more.

Hope this helps. Please come by the website to learn more about how archival testing is done.

Drew Hendrix
Red River Paper
www.redriverpaper.com
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Old Jun 11, 2002, 6:36 PM   #3
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I don't understand your point? The 1270 doesn't do anything different for paper longevity. Neither does the 1280. Actually any printer that has dye based ink will do the same. So it isn't a hidden weakeness, it is something that has always been up front.

In order to get around the issue, you need to go to pigment based inks. The printers are more expensive and so are the inks. So far, the Epson 2000p is the only game in town. Up and coming is the new Epson 2200. They have a newly formulated ink and it uses chips on their carts. i can only wonder what the cost of those carts is going to be. If you can do away with larger prints, "some" people say the C80 is something worth looking at.

The S9000 is a great printer sitting right in the middle. I have been using Epson papers, but have recently discovered the Red River papers. I ordered Ultra Pro Satin and Gloss. The Ultra Pro Satin is fantastic. I wish I also ordered a pack of the Matte to try out because that is my favorite paper but Epson has begun to put a watermark on the back. I will try the Red River Matte to see if it as nice as the Epson Archival Matte. But I can very heartily recommend the Red River UltraPro Satin. It is a knockout winner.

Pete
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Old Jun 12, 2002, 9:29 AM   #4
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Default Canon vs. Epson ink usage.

Philby,
Not sure I follow your logic on ink usage and cartridge costs. I think you may have it upside down. (free ink?)

Consider this. You have a beautiful blue sky photo.

You print 50 8x10s on each printer. (why, I don't know).

You just put in new cartridges in each printer.

Because of the makeup of your photo, both printers run out of cyan.

You put another new cartridge in your epson, throwing away all the other ink in the meantime. Cost: $30.

Your canon also requires new cyan. You don't touch the other full cartridges.
Cost: $12.

Granted an extreme example. But, realistically it can't possibly be more expensive with the Canon. (or any other printer with separate cartridges)

I'll stick with the new printers and put the old ones on Ebay.

P
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Old Jun 12, 2002, 7:14 PM   #5
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Thanks for your replies.

Where on Red River does it talk about how ink longevity is tested? I looked over the site and must have overlooked it. If have a URL that would be great. Iím somewhat relieved that other papers will provide extended color fastness to certain inkjets. It would be great if there were some sort of guide to what works and what wonít. I used the Krylon UV-Resistant coating on the conventional dye based prints but discontinued it with the 1270, not knowing what effect, if any it would have.

I havenít seen any reviews for the Epson 2200. Anyone know of any? I know with other inkjets that I have used, the prints fade faster than they do with the1270. I assume that will be the case with Canon S9000.

I purchased the Epson Stylus Color when it first came out. I used up about one cart a week, $37 for color and $ 30 for black. A few years later I replaced it with
The HP 2000P a 4-color printer with separate ink tanks. I ran out of yellow once a week, plus I replaced an additional color every week and a half. The ink tanks cost $30. My cost actually went up for the model with individual ink tanks. After a year I replaced the HP with an Epson 900 and eventually went to a continuous inking system for all of my bulk printing. I use 4 oz. bottles for each individual color at $11.25 per bottle. This works! The determining factors are how much ink is in those carts and for how much.

Thanks again,
Philby
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Old Jun 17, 2002, 6:05 PM   #6
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Default Canon S9000 Ink Replacement

Philby,

Canon has the low ink some of the lowest replacement costs of all printer lines. You can replace each ink tank separately instead of having to replace all colors, when most likely only the yellow has run out.

Papers have a lot to do with the longevity of the prints. Most likely the Epson Archival matte paper will last 10 or mor years if stored properly (under glass). The updated driver has a matte setting. I hope this helps

Billy
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Old Jun 17, 2002, 6:44 PM   #7
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OK how about this... I am buying a S9000 for myself. No Canon freebie, I am paying for it out of pocket because it is the best and fastest thing I've seen yet.

I used to grow a beard waiting on my Epson 1270 to print a 13x19" print and the S9000 cranks them out in about 4 minutes. It seems like I barely hit the print button and the S9000 (or S900) has already spit out a finished and borderless 4x6 inch print.

Just don't judge the color immediately, all the prints have blue-greenish tint that goes away within 3-5 minutes as they dry. Other than that I haven't found a thing to complain about yet when it comes to the S9000.

-Steve
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Old Jun 17, 2002, 9:56 PM   #8
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I agree with what people are saying about the speed and quality of prints on the Canon S9000, the best so far. It is very encouraging that people are doing some testing and with the separate ink cartridges and are finding that the separate carts are coming out a better value. It is not a given.

It produces prints that are close to what is seen on the screen. I used to color correct and print to see if I got what I was looking for. Now, more often than not, my reaction after making a print is, ĎIíve seen that before. Its on my monitorí.

I would however, like to see Canon test more papers for light fastness and publish the results. There should be more than one paper that they will back in this regard.

Thank you,
Philby
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Old Jun 20, 2002, 8:37 PM   #9
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I have been closely following <a href="http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html">Vincent's live review</a> of the Epson 2100. Everything seemed great. Then he did a 13x19 and posted that it took almost 18 minutes. Whoooh there partner, 17 plus minutes to do a 13x19. I thought they said they made the new Epson faster??? Is that really faster?

My 9000 prints 13x19 in just minutes. I never timed it, but it seems like it does it in around 4 or 5 minutes. That is a pretty big difference.

Pete

PS I should add the quality is fantastic!!! Just to add to the opinions, I like Archival Matte Paper best, even over the Pro Paper from Canon.

[Edited on 6-21-2002 by Peter Gregg]

[Edited on 6-27-2002 by steve]
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Old Jun 27, 2002, 11:46 AM   #10
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Peter,

Hope you don't mind, I edited your message and added a URL to Vincent's Epson 2100 review so others could easily find and read it. Very nice review- wish I had that much time to put into each product that we review.

I was also semi-shocked when I read his statement of the 13x19" print time but I think he is doing everything at 2880dpi - that's something I rarely (if ever) did with my Epsons - the 720dpi setting was usually sufficient and only took 1/2 the print time and ink ...

I just love to amaze folks who stop by with one of my 4 minute 13x19" prints, that makes a believer out of them in a hurry

-Steve
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