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Old Jan 9, 2007, 2:18 PM   #1
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When printing my photo's with my new Canon IX 4000, the photo's look very nice. I'm wondering if the black PGI-5 Pigment Black is used in this printer during photo-printing. Other Canon models are using a CLI-8 Black dye cartridge for photoprinting. Is it possible that the IX 4000 (only PGI-5 + CLI-8 C/M/Y cartridges) relies on mixing the 3 CLI-8 cartridges to mimic a black colour ? And if so: is it possible to force this printer to use the PGI-5 cartridge to ad real black in photo printing on photo glossy/matte paper, like a specialtweak in the print settings?

The reason for my question is that I've ordered a CISS system, which uses a dye black in the PGI-5 cartridge (it seems that pigment ink causes a problem with the ink flow on the long term, according to the seller (?)). And by forcing the PGI-5 to be part of the photoprinting process (when using dye ink) the colours should be as bright and crisp like printing on the other Canon models using a special CLI-8 black cartridge.

It seems that Canon is using the CLI-8 black ink, since the pigment-based PGI-5 black does not adhere very well on photo glossy paper, according what I have found on the internet. Should I otherwise force the printing setting to photo matte paper instead to overcome this possible problem (if this is really true), when printing on photo glossy paper?

Do other guys on this forum have similar photo printers with only one pigment based PGI-5 or BCI-3Bek black cartridge (like the Canon Pixma IP3300, IX4000, IX5000 printers) and how is their experience when using CISS-systems concerning the usage of the PGI-5 black inktank during (only) photo printing ? Is that colour hardly used or really involved during photo printing ?

Thanks
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Old Jan 13, 2007, 7:44 AM   #2
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I have an iX4000 printer myself but haven't yet got around to building a CIS for it because I've been busy with my MP500/830 and ip4200/5200's...

The excuse about the pigment black sounds a little suspect though to be honest but I'm not in a position to comment as I've not gone there yet and don't know the issues.

However, looking at your problem/request overall it seems you're really just trying to get a minor detail resolved. I'd wait and see how things turn out before you worry.

Having seen some of the discussion/complaints about the use of dyebase black on duplexing in some Canon printers though I have to say that there's unlikely to be a way around the printers settings and you'll just have to live with it or find a dedicated photo printer that provides the results you want.

Please do keep us posted as to how the iX4000 CIS works out as I'll be interested to hear of any problems so I can avoid them when my build time comes around.
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Old Jan 13, 2007, 4:10 PM   #3
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For testing I have printed 2 test photo's having a lot of colours and grey shades on my Pixma MP 780 multifunctional and the Pixma IX4000, when the paper setting was photo paper (matte, glossy, glossy pro), the black on the IX4000 was not so black as it should be as on the test print on the Pixma MP780, making my presumptions more likely that the IX4000 is not using the Pigment PGI-5 black in photoprinting. Black looks more like a intensely deep dark purple, when compared with the black of the Pixma MP 780. On it self the colour is definitely seen als black when overlooking the whole picture, only when compared with the other print out you can definitely say: not really black, but aproaching it nearly almost.

When I set the paper to high resolution normal paper and printing on glossy photo paper, the black colour was almost als black as the Pixma MP 780, except for the more velvetty tone (difference dye and pigment black ?).

Are there anyone else trying this experiment with similar printers like the IX 5000, the IP 3300 and the Pixma MP 510 multifunctional (also: PGI-5 pigment black and CLI-8 Cyan/Magenta/Yellow dye inks) ? Let me know if you can confirm my findings on this forum.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"The problem is that when choosing high resolution paper, I can't choose borderless printing anymore (to be passed by a registersetting ?). Does someone know how to overcome this problem ?

Besides I'm expecting my CISS system next monday or tuesday from Hongkong. I will let you know about installing and running the CISS system after the days to come.
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Old Jan 16, 2007, 4:20 PM   #4
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Well today my ciss system arrived and tried to install it. Everything goes well until the test printing. I can't get proper nozzle checks: only by lifting up the external CISS-unit about 10 cm I can get near perfect nozzle check printouts.

The biggest problem seems to be the PGI-5 black cartridge: After printing a normal text page with bold black letters, the ink seems to be insufficient at three quarters at the end of the page. leaving striations and stripes in the printing.

Thenecessary silicon seal pads are installed, but I'm still trying to get black to flow efficiently to the print head with no luck.

What am I doing wrong ? I can't lift the CISS-unit to high, otherwise my printer will flood over :sad:....
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Old Jan 17, 2007, 4:06 PM   #5
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After testing almost the whole day I definitely have to give it up. Lifting the external CISS unit up to 12 cm above the printer to increase the inkflow did not give the smooth ink flow required, when printing sudden large areas with the same colour (to stress the ink flow to the maximum extent).

After a nozzle check my test pattern with several colours prints ok, except for the black colour (giving striations/banding at the end of the black block, probably by the insufficient ink flow to the cartridge mouth).

The so called air balancing system does not work well: does a air filter system work better ?

The supplied "sponge free" carts with ciss system are very badly designed: I think a semi-sponge design would be much better to cope with the sudden rise and fall of the pressure inside the cartridge when printing large areas with the same colour.

Are there better "sponge free"ciss carts available ? Does anyone have experience with this carts ?

After that I removed the CISS and went back to my old Canon carts and all the printing problems disappeared completely.

Now throwing away about € 70,- (including Postage & Handling) :sad:

Please look at my pictures during the installation. Am I doing something wrong ?
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Old Jan 20, 2007, 2:16 AM   #6
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Having read your comments over the past couple of weeks and looking back at some of the reviews and problems reported by others of other spongeless Canon cartridge designs I suspect your problem has been down to the fact that the spongeless cartridges are reported as being next to useless.

The air balancing or "mariotte bottle" style of reservoir is something I've never really understood properly especially since I've been educated on numerous ways that pressure changes in the whole system as it works. But I doubt that's the cause..

I appreciate that this doesn't help with your current dilemma but I'm going to be taking some time this weekend to build a homemade version of a CIS into my iX4000. I plan to use some 2mm ID (inner diameter) tubing along with a set of OEM Canon cartridges converted with some elbow fittings rather than spongeless cartridges.

I'll take pictures of the whole process and report back on continuousink.info but at present the one thing I suspect will cause problems is the length of the tubing and how it may dip into the printhead carriage units path and either smear ink or catch under the carriage (causing a jam).. So problems I anticipate have to solve..
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Old Jan 20, 2007, 5:37 AM   #7
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Websnail: could you give me the link on continuousink.info when done. I would like to see how you are doing this.

Finally I've got mail from canon NL: the are saying the PGI-5 black is actually used during photoprinting, so this leaves the possibility to use dye photo-black into the PGI-5 cartridge/CISS system. This should increase contrast in printing.

When building a own CISS with modified OEM carts: are you putting the valves in the front sponge based chamber or the back ink filled chamber ?

So you are saying the air balancing system wouldn't be a problem at all for my inkflow problem. Strangely my problem only exist for the black cartridge, giving me the suspection that the black ink is to viscuous to run smoothly through the valves. Also the black inks supplied with the CISS stains more pronounced on the inner wall of the valves than the other colours when flowing back into the reservoir.

I'm looking for your experience for building a CISS into a Pixma IX 4000 A3+ printer
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Old Jan 25, 2007, 1:24 PM   #8
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pharmacist wrote:
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Websnail: could you give me the link on continuousink.info when done. I would like to see how you are doing this.
I'll be sure and share when I get to it.. unfortunately tax returns, and other joys have taken up my free time so it's going to be a delayed for a bit.

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When building a own CISS with modified OEM carts: are you putting the valves in the front sponge based chamber or the back ink filled chamber ?
Well, funny you should ask but I've been building them so they sit above the sponge and that has worked fine except in the magenta cartridges. I'm talking about CIS's with iP4200/4300/5200's here but I haven't found out what the problem is yet.

I do know that in order to put the fittings above the spongeless part of the cartridge you have to physically alter the printer case to remove the plastic bits that dip low over the cartridge towards the front left and right of printer insides. Not ideal!

Quote:
So you are saying the air balancing system wouldn't be a problem at all for my inkflow problem. Strangely my problem only exist for the black cartridge, giving me the suspection that the black ink is to viscuous to run smoothly through the valves. Also the black inks supplied with the CISS stains more pronounced on the inner wall of the valves than the other colours when flowing back into the reservoir.
It's a possibility, but I'd recommend you try reinstalling your original OEM carts and see if they now work ok or if there's a problem like air bubbles in the printhead.

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I'm looking for your experience for building a CISS into a Pixma IX 4000 A3+ printer
Well, just so long as you don't expect miracles or ought
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Old Jan 26, 2007, 5:23 AM   #9
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Well, when puting the OEM carts back, the black colour appears immediately without any forced head clean at all. A full black wonderful band can be printed without any striations/banding in my test pattern. So my print head is 100 % OK, leaving the only possibility that the black ink from my CISS cartridge is not flowing properly into the print head.

The guy from cis.supply.hk is going to send me a spare PGI-5 black spare CISS cartridge to be fitted into the CISS (maybe a isobaric problem inside the cart, due to internal chamber leakage ?).

Besides all other colours are running fine, and even the ink seems to be very good on normal and photo paper.
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Old Jan 26, 2007, 1:26 PM   #10
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pharmacist wrote:
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Well, when puting the OEM carts back, the black colour appears immediately without any forced head clean at all. A full black wonderful band can be printed without any striations/banding in my test pattern. So my print head is 100 % OK, leaving the only possibility that the black ink from my CISS cartridge is not flowing properly into the print head.
Well that's good news I guess and proves that the problem is CIS and/or ink related.

Somehow I doubt it's the ink causing a clog as that'd affect the printout with OEM carts...

Quote:
The guy from cis.supply.hk is going to send me a spare PGI-5 black spare CISS cartridge to be fitted into the CISS (maybe a isobaric problem inside the cart, due to internal chamber leakage ?).

Besides all other colours are running fine, and even the ink seems to be very good on normal and photo paper.
well I guess, keep us posted.
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