Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Printers > Photo Inkjet

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 1, 2003, 3:32 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 8
Default Does Canon ink really fade??

Im really close to finally making a decision between the canon i960 and the hp 7960... the only thing holding me back from the canon is the rumor that the ink will fade "fast"

My question is, what exactly does "fast" mean? will my photo's fade within the week/month/year??

Should I even consider this a problem?

please let me know!

thanks
scopa is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Oct 3, 2003, 3:49 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 84
Default

>>My question is, what exactly does "fast" mean? will my photo's fade within the week/month/year??

Should I even consider this a problem?<<

First, I think you should consider the problem if permanence is at all important to you. Now you should know that this is coming from one who bought the Epson 870 after being disenchanted with the longevity exhibited by the 4 ink Epson printer that I had been using and then, when the Epson 2200 came out, I bought it because the prints made from that printer last eons longer than either of the Dye based printers I had been using.

Now to try to address your problem. It is probably apparent that I am an Epson user so I have to admit that I have no experience with the Canon at issue. Nor do I have experience with the HP at issue. You might ask why then am I responding? The answer is that longevity is important to me and I keep in touch with users of various sorts of equipment to see what their experience has been. Thus, most of what I can tell you about the Canon is based on anecdotal evidence.

From what I have heard, the Canons dye based printers fade at a rate similar to the early Epsons. Some have had photos fade in sunny exposures in a matter of weeks. Some have seen much better results than that. However, the existence of identifiable reports from responsible users of short lived prints bothers me. (Remember that there is a huge difference in longevity from the same printer depending on the media used. Glossies are the worst generally, with mat prints usually lasting substantially longer.)

Now moving on to the HP unit. I am assuming that the unit you mentioned uses the HP engine that allows you to switch from a 4 ink dye based system to the HP 57 and 58 6 color system. If so, it exhibits what Wilhelm Imaging says is the best longevity on glossy paper of any dye based printer (however, that is really limited to the relevant HP glossy paper -- not all glossy paper). If the printer that you are considering does use the 57 and 58 cartridges, I would not consider the Canon for another minute. The HP is so superior that it doesn't make sense to get the Canon unless you intend to use it solely for proofing.

Consider this. You take pictures of your children and put them in a scrap book. Do you want them to be able to see those pictures when they grow up and share the memories with their children? That is what we have done in our family and it adds a lot to life. You are infinitely more likely to get that result with the HP than the Canon.

OK, now for some real world comparisons on "quickly".

In my experience (Epsons, remember), quick fading may start in a few months but generally doesn't last more than a couple of years at best. That was what I had in my first Epson Stylus printer.

The later Stylus Photo printer (4 color) did a little better with 2-4 years being typical.

The Stylus Photo 870/1270 does much better, with 4 years on cheap Espon Glossy, 9-10 years on the best Epson Glossy and 25 years on Epson Colorlife (a luster paper). The Epson 2200 (pigment based printer) does about 85 years on the best Epson Glossy (though you get some metamerism with the pigment inks and I tend to do these up with the 1270 as a result), and up to 200 years on some art papers! The HP 5550 as I recall was rated by Wilhelm in the 40 year catagory on HP glossy which is a truly remarkable performance for a dye ink on glossy paper.

In the long run, you pays your money and you makes your choice, but don't underestimate the importance of print longevity...

I hope this helps...
<TED>
tedj101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3, 2003, 4:27 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
sjms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,735
Default

tedj101-you for got the Epson 2200 and its prints potential lifespan.
sjms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3, 2003, 6:21 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjms
tedj101-you for got the Epson 2200 and its prints potential lifespan.
Hmmm... I rather thought I did mention it. That 200 year lifespan I mentioned sure wasn't for one of the dye based printers <G>!

Best,
<TED>
tedj101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3, 2003, 6:29 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
sjms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,735
Default

Ooops!! :shock:
sjms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7, 2003, 8:30 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 156
Default

The only thing that will kill a print from a canon fast, sometimes even in a few weeks is gas fading. Other dye based printers are just as suseptible to gas fading. Wether you experience gas fading or not is just a matter of the luck of the draw though there are some envromental factors such as the ozone give off by a fridge compressor that come into play. What maters is the kind of paper you use and how you protect the prints (and the ink of course). While canon ink is not going to compete with pigment ink like the 2200 uses, it is still capable of lasting several years. Part of the reason that you hear horror stories about canons is that canon paper is crap. it's light fade resistance is not the best and it's gas fade resistance is downright horrible. Canon printers and ink are capable of giving much beter longevity with other papers. Protecting your prints mainlly helps when the problem is gas fading. Putting the print behind glass or in album sleves or even spraying with a sealant can substantially help with gas fading. Using a resin coated/swellable polymere type paper will also give you decent gas fade resistance on unprotected prints though sometimes it takes a little more effort to print on some of these papers as the canon printers print so fast, not all resin coated/swellable polymere papers easilly take the fast ink laydown.
richardh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7, 2003, 8:50 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,396
Default

The 200 year lifespan was for the epson 2000 inks.
The 2200's ratings are in the 100 and less range.

It really varries by the paper that is used.
For instance the epson 2200 originally had a 90 year rating when using the epson archival matt paper. Then the paper was renamed to epson enhanced matt paper and it lifespan was reduced to 30-50 years when epson found that the paper itself fails after about 30 years and the base paper itself starts to turn orange(the inks are fine). Last I checked one of the cheapest epson papers, the watercolor rag held the longest life of around 90 years when used with ultrachrome inks.

Here is a link to epson version of print permanence ratings
Print Permanence on Epson Papers
I'd hope every manfacturer should have something similar.
PeterP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8, 2003, 10:19 PM   #8
lg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 823
Default

I had a Canon 550 (?), and when it came out it was the top of the line. I printed out a full page print of the kids, and it faded substantially over a year's time. It was on a wall in an office with no windows, with only fluorescent lighting present. FYI...
lg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 9, 2003, 4:13 AM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 84
Default

[quote="PeterP"]The 200 year lifespan was for the epson 2000 inks.
The 2200's ratings are in the 100 and less range.

Actually, the 200 year lifespan was for Ultrachrome inks in dark storage and the 100 and less range was generally for display under glass. Given that we were talking ranges of permanence and storage in photoalbums as at least one type of use of these prints, I thought it fair to give a longevity figure for dark storage since proper storage in a good photoalbum is much closer to Wilhelm's dark storage than it is display under glass.

FWIW, I think most of these prints from most printers will last longer in dark storage than on display...

<TED>
tedj101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 9, 2003, 5:16 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lg
I had a Canon 550 (?), and when it came out it was the top of the line. I printed out a full page print of the kids, and it faded substantially over a year's time. It was on a wall in an office with no windows, with only fluorescent lighting present. FYI...
Were you using canon paper? On Livick's site canon paper rated at 2yrs against daylight exposure while ilford smooth gloss rated 5.7 yrs and epson color life rated 11.5 yrs. Prints lasted a lot longer with flouresent lighting (canon paper rated at 32.2 yrs). Gas fading can occure anywhere and the print does not have to be exposed to the elements for it to happen. Offices are notoriouslly bad about gas fading. Anything that uses toner can contribute. Air conditioners can too due to ozone production and it can build up in a sealed up enviroment. Gases that cause gas fading can just naturally occure too. Obviouslly we wouldn't know for another year but I wonder how your prints would look after a year in the same enviroment if you printed on a swellable polymere paper or used a uv spray sealant. I have prints from my i850 (same inks as yours) that are a year old that show no sign of fading. How do your prints hold up at home?
richardh is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.