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Old May 10, 2004, 1:25 AM   #1
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I just read Steve's review of the new Canon i9900/i9950 A3-sized printer. This printer is one among several A3 printers I'm interested in. However, I'm missing in this review, as well as in others, the aspect of color fading.

It looks that the average opinion is that the longevity of the Epson 2200 prints are above average - but these opinions are, as far as I can judge, based on their older competition models.

Would be interesting if Canon and HP made their homeworks in this domain and are now better than their predecessors? Both the Canon i9950and HP 9650 seem to have an +- equal quality but if their prints are gone or at least deteriorated within some rather short period, they are IMHO not worth having a closer look into them??

Is their any site known that compares RECENT printers (A3+) including the longevity aspect?



Best regards, Dan Castiglia, Luxembourg
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Old May 10, 2004, 4:52 PM   #2
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My i960 uses the same BCI-6 dye-based inks, and prints done on Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy last only a few weeks before they are faded badly (noticeable in 2-3 days even), when left unprotected in my office environment (flourescent lighting, ventilation). Comparing to Photo Paper Pro, it lasts longer but still fades badly after a couple months in the same environment. The micro-porous paper such as these are prone to fading. The Kodak paper I tried (Premium Picture Paper, swellable) lasts longer from a fading perspective (about 2 years in the office with HP standard CMYK ink, not faded yet with Canon ink), but it can rub off with a moist finger. I've found the paper matters more than the ink for color fade. The tradeoff is water/smudge resistance (Canon paper) or fade resistance (Kodak, HP paper).

The Wilhelm article may be more helpful:

http://bermangraphics.com/press/wilhelm.htm
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Old May 10, 2004, 11:47 PM   #3
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Informal fade test with Canon i960 (BCI-6 6-color photo inks):

Note: These were left exposed to air and flourescent light in my office during the entire period of testing. The covered area was covered with a piece of post-it note. Fade was noticed as early as 2 weeks on the PPPG and 3-4 weeks on PPP.
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Old May 11, 2004, 4:26 AM   #4
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what the HELL is THAT?



That is probably the worst fading I have EVER seen. Is canon that bad when it comes to fading?

Ok, no canon for me. I have prints that are over 1 years old and show NO sign of fading.
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Old May 11, 2004, 8:31 AM   #5
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I have been very concerned about color fading on my prints from my Canon i9100 and so I cut a photo in half and taped one half to my office window that faces south and get direct sunlight about 7-8 hours a day. The other half I stored in an archival sleeve and kept in a box in a dark closet. The print was made on Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss paper. I started this test on April 18th 2004. As of now when I compare the two halves side by side I can see NO difference and NO color shift and No fading. I will continue this informal test to see what happens.
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Old May 11, 2004, 12:49 PM   #6
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I have been finding evidence that the Canon paper photosare fading mostly due to air exposure/circulation, not UV light exposure. I'm doing further testing on this and I will post the results. I had some photos on my fridge at home that did not fade like this for several months until the recent warm weather, and now that I have had the doors and windows open during the evening, they have faded significantly in a short time period. They were exposed to air (no sunlight) prior to this but without air circulation. The air circulation seems to greatly accelerate the fading. I mayset upa test with still air on one photo and a fan on the other and see what happens.

Also, HP inks on the Canon Photo Paper Plus Glossy faded even faster and worsethan the Canon inks.

Canon inks on Kodak Premium Picture paper have not yet faded during my testing. However, the photos are not as detailed and smooth on the Kodak paper (swellable).
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Old May 11, 2004, 4:22 PM   #7
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The Epson has such print life bcause it is a pigment ink printer, not a dye ink printer like the Canon and HP's. However those types of printers have there issues as well. A print done on a pigment printer lacks the snap of a dye based print and they don't print on glossy paper real well with a lot of bronzing (althought the new Epson R800 may be an execption here) and the inks are very costly (of course, so is reprinting). The Canon Photo Pape Plus is not archival quality paper, it isn't even real good photo paper so the fading results are to be expected. Photo Paper Pro is much better and any short term fading experinced with this paper is due to gas fading, not light fading. I have prints done on a Canon S900 that are now approaching three years old and have not faded at all. These are of course framed behind glass, that is the only way to prevent gas fading and although they are in a well lit room, they are not in direct sun light. Digital photographers need toremember that a inkjet print or a regular photo will fail rapidly if left out in the open air and in direct sun light. I also have prints in albums that have not faded at all execpt for one album that was done on lower quality off brand matte paper. It faded in 15 months. Any prints done on top quality paper has not been affected.



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Old May 12, 2004, 12:27 AM   #8
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Maseace,

It sems that your experince may be correct. Fading or color shift is more likely do to air circulation (gas fading) that light exposure. I look forward to your future testing.
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Old May 12, 2004, 4:11 AM   #9
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No-one seems to have mentioned Kodak's allegedly revolutionary anti-fade inkjet print technology, which we discussed somewhere in these forums in the olden days (a few weeks ago) before the software changed.

I can't find the discussion in the archives. Has anyone got an update on whether it was all true or not?
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Old May 12, 2004, 8:50 PM   #10
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I think the jury is still out on the new Kodak paper and its rated print life.I have gotten excellent results with it on my Canon S900 and have run over 100 sheets of the stuff so far. The issues is howKodak tested it to arrive at 100 years (which I don't really believe but even if it lasts 25% of that, it is still 25 years). The problem that Henry W. has with the Kodak method is that it uses a much lower light source than what his testing firm uses (Ibelieve it is 125lux vs 450lux). Keep something in mind here however. The light fade testing that Henry W. does is done under very controlled conditions with prints framed and sealed behind glass (almost to museum standards from a report I read awhile back). Kodak was trying to do its testing more along the lines ofhow most people store there pictures and anyway, there are not to many sources in a home where you would expose a photo to a 450lux light source for 12 hours a day.

The bottom line is that true archive quality still can only come from a pigment ink printer of which Epson is the only make I know of for consumer level printers. However dye inks are getting better and hopefully it won't be to long before we get better results from dye ink prints.

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