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Old May 24, 2004, 2:20 PM   #1
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Heya,

I have just been starting to look around for a new printer, it all started with me beeing sick of cd labels and wanted a printer that could print directly onto the cd/dvd, but decided to go with a photo printer when i first was going to buy a new one.

My choices as the topic says has gotten down to Canon 965 and Epson 200-300 but can't realy makeup my mind for whats the best printer.

The thing that concerns me with the Canon i965 is that the pictures don't last very loong, have heard they start to fade just after a couple of monthes.

Epson got lasting prints, buthave heard they are much more expensive than the printers from canonin use with expensive Ink and all.

What's the best buy of canon and epson? or is it best just to buy one that do the cd/dvd print and continue printing my album photos at the store or over the net?
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Old May 24, 2004, 4:37 PM   #2
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This one almost belongs in a FAQ (it's been asked enough)... Here is a summary:

1) Life issue is only on the R800 vs Canon it (the R800) uses special inks that are fade resistant. The R300 uses a formula similar in life to the Canon printers.

2) The life issue was overstated (it's not as bad in real life) as it was reported. Most of the short lives are by using non matched paper/ink combos

3) The life issue is now a no brainer .. Use Kodak Ultima paper and you get 100 year life on all the printers.

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Print Quality (as of today pending a look at the Canon 990)

Highest Rating
Canon i99x0
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Epson R200/300
Canon 96x/90x
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Epson R800/ 2200
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Canon 86x
Canon i9100
Lower Rating

The "x" is 0 for US printers (eg 960) or 5 for the Euro printers (eg 965)
Euro models add the ability to print CDs. Epsons have the ability to do CDs

The lines are distinctions between printers. Generally you would consider going up a level good when buying but not worth an upgrade (if you already own it). Going up two levels might be worth an upgrade. And yes the i9900 is two levels above the rest of them (check out steves review for details).

All the printers can create excellent printouts. We are talking about degrees here andhighest to lowest is not a great as it used to be. This is more like the difference between the first batch of film off ofthe local photo shop and the last batch of prints. You can see a difference butit's not thatmuch unless you are really critical.

The Canon 86x is unique in that it has an extra black cartridge which makes text printing a lot cheaper. This makes it the only combo printer. Printing standard text on your photo printer is expensive. If you only have room on your desk for one printer get this one or be prepared for the cost.

Epsons can handle more paper types than Canons (including panoramic).

The Epson 2200 is the best of the bunch at black and white photo printing.

The Canons are a lot cheaper per page. The cartridges are cheaper and the ink is visable so you can judge when it is empty. The Epsons have opaque cartidges that tell you when they are empty also the Epson does a lot more head cleaning cycles that use up ink. The Epson 800/2200 are prone to clogging (requires a cleaning that wastes more ink).

Canons are a lot faster, time to first page is a lot faster since the printer does not do a cleaning cycle. Plus the time for a full page is less than 40sec for 8x10 and the new i9900 will to an13x19 in 2 min 40sec. Epsons take around 4min for 8x10 and 27min for 13x19 prints.


-----------------------------------
Notes on me: Iown and use a Canon i860 and an Epson R200. I have an i9900 on order. So I recently did this evaluation for myself.

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Old May 25, 2004, 2:53 AM   #3
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Thanx for the reply, this helped alot.

I just have one more question for you since you have both the canon 860 and the epson 200. Why do you have both? You just have the epson for the ability to print on cds and dvds? or use it to print your photos due to the quality ?
And does the canon printer support the Kodak paper?
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Old May 25, 2004, 8:47 AM   #4
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Bingo on the first one (CD/DVD printing).

I have printed some pictures on the R200 but I'm not patient enough to wait for the prints (I mostly print bordered 8 1/2 x11) ,they are a little better but not enough to justify the time (IMHO).

I usually am an interactive printer.. print -> review -> reprint (if needed)-> save.

I've generally been a two printer person.. One for text and one for photos. I purchasedthe i860and fully planned on getting the Canon i960 when it came out (it came out about 2 months after the i860) but the quality of the i860 was good enough that when looked at normally (eg in a photobook or framed behind glass) it was not worth it (IMHO).

So I saved the money and have not regretted it. I domodel portfoliosand I wanted to do a little more professional look on the CDs so I picked up the EPSON.

Personally I wish Epson or Canon would come out with a dedicated CD Printer (small size) and permanently attach the CD tray.


The only paper I use for photos is the Kodak Ultimapaper.It's only issue isdrying time,you need to pull it off the printer as each sheet comes out and then set it out for drying. It is stable after about 10 min (you can stack the prints) and fully dry in about 12-24 hrs.

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Old May 25, 2004, 4:04 PM   #5
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Okay thanx for all the help.

Hehe i _Think_ I'm going to go for the i965, tho I'm not completly sure yet. The price for the R200 is like 178$ here, and the price for the i965 is 400$ here in norway.

If the quality is the same for both the R200 and i965 it all comes down to the ink usage for me since i don't care that much of the speed. But on the other side, I've heard the epson using as much as 3 times more ink (can you confirm this?)than the canon printer does. So it all comes down to the price of usage. 220$, thats two sets of ink aswel. hehe
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Old May 25, 2004, 4:51 PM   #6
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Threetimes sounds a little exaggerated. Epson has been accused of giving short cartridges (1/2 filled) when you get the printer. So if you compared a brand new R200/300 vs a brand new i965 it might look that way, once you buy a new set of cartridges it will probably even out some more. If you only print one page at a time the cleaning cycles will probably dump out even more ink.

I haven't torn apart an Epson cartridge but I will assume it is similar internally to the Canon




The left side of the tank flows over to the Right side that has a piece of foam in it that gives you controlled flow.Epson and Canon both give you a warning the tank is nearly empty (when the left side is empty), but you actually still have about 1/3 of a tank remaining (givesyou time to pop down to the local store for a refill).

You can pop out the Canon tank and visibly see if the tank is really expended with the Epson the tank is opaque so you will have to guess and this will make it seem to have a little less. Since my R200 is pretty new (and all I am doing is a limited number of CDs)I have not had to replace the tanks on it yet.

-----------------------------------------
Good luck on your decision. The interesting thing is you really can't make too wrong of a decision here. All these printers are very good and will produce great prints.

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Old May 25, 2004, 6:13 PM   #7
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Speaking of ink tanks...

Personally, I rule out all Epsons due the current "issue" with their ink tanks in regards to the "smart chips" telling you that you are out of ink when in actuality you can print far more if the chips didn't stop the printer from printing.

http://www.rechargermag.com/news.asp?id=200311501
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Old May 25, 2004, 6:57 PM   #8
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Mayhem wrote:
Quote:
Speaking of ink tanks...

Personally, I rule out all Epsons due the current "issue" with their ink tanks in regards to the "smart chips" telling you that you are out of ink when in actuality you can print far more if the chips didn't stop the printer from printing.

http://www.rechargermag.com/news.asp?id=200311501
Of course if they allow the tank to dry up it will fry the head (the ink is used as a coolant for the head). So if it allowed the ink lower the lawyers would sue because of this.

I personally never trust these kind of class action suits all they are is a grab for some money by some shysters who will in turn give you (the consumer)a coupon good for $5 off you next 100 pack of Epson brand toilet paper. Look at the recent suits as examples. Sometimes I thinkthis is a new form of ambulance chasing.

Now if the AG of a state or the department of consumer affairs starts yelling I pay a little more attention.

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Old May 27, 2004, 6:41 AM   #9
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Damn Canon, they still can't produce enough units of the i965 here so its not a single unit to get. It's like a couple of months waiting periode.

So, now i don't have a choice, Epson or Canon i865 (If its possible to find a store with the i865 in stock that is) Epson 200 and 300 they got everywhere.

I guess you had a typo when you placed the Epson 200/300 higher up than the 800/2200 your print quality rating.
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Old May 27, 2004, 10:15 AM   #10
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Jumbo wrote:
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I guess you had a typo when you placed the Epson 200/300 higher up than the 800/2200 your print quality rating.
Actually no .. The Ultrachrome ink of the 800 is not as "snappy" looking as the R200/300 pigment stuff (remember we are talking about an IMHO here). Printing on glossy stock is known to show an effect called "metamerism". This is where the picture looks fine in one type of light (when you print it) but take it to another light type and a color shifts occur between the cartridge colorsthatare not matched.

Both effects are very small (actually very very small) but the perception when looking at the prints is that the R200/300 actully creates better looking prints.

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