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Old Nov 23, 2002, 9:12 AM   #1
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Default canon inks fade faster than Epson?

I was told on older canon printers there inks faded faster than anyone elses did. Has this been improved?
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Old Nov 24, 2002, 9:33 PM   #2
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Canon inks last for 25 years on photo paper pro and on the photo glossy plus papers. The Epson pigment inks last up to 80 years on certain ink/paper combinations.
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Old Nov 24, 2002, 10:20 PM   #3
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Inkjet picture fading is an old problem that has largely been solved. Epson was a pioneer in addressing the problem and got seriously burned a few years back with the "orange bloom" problem. Their 870/1270 printers were well ahead of their time, but after exposure to sunlight for a few months faded dramatically with dramatic orange discoloration of the prints. The problen was so bad they offered a buy-back program of their printers.

Epson re-formulated their inks and solved the problem. Long term picture life has been improved. Epson called the solution "archieval" ink. The solution involves both new inks and improved papers.

Most of the other manufacturers have picked up on improved picture life. The competition has resulted in claims of longer and longer output life. If my pictures last 25 years, that'll be long enough for me.

Most newer printers will produce very nice pictures that will last at least as long as you will. Some of the old inkjets will produce photos that will fade in a few months in high light conditions.

Remember that ink will cost a lot more over the life of a printer than the hardware cost. Get a modern printer, then buy good paper and ink. You won't be sorry.
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Old Nov 25, 2002, 3:10 AM   #4
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Wildman,

I am afraid that I don't agree with your reply.

First of all, the Epson problem of a couple of years ago called "orange shift" was a "gas fading" problem caused by exposure to the atmosphere, not by exposure to sunlight. Have a look at this link.

http://members.cox.net/rmeyer9/epson/

You will see that orange shift occurs even in pitch blackness! This problem is still around but depends more on the paper used than the printer or ink.

Secondly, Epson only use "archival inks" in two of their photo printers, the 2000P and the 2200 (also the non-photo C82). These printers use pigment inks which are not subject to gas fading and are much more resistant to light (UV) fading than the dye based inks used in all other inkjet photo printers.

Thirdly, the print lives quoted by printer manufacturers are for ideal "museum" conditions - very low light levels and behind glass. There is a lot a research on UV fading at the moment in another forum. Try this link:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read....essage=3677272

Chris
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Old Nov 25, 2002, 3:08 PM   #5
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Default Acrylic sealers; what do you think

One way then to stop the UV effect and maybe the gas effect is using an acrylic clear sealer like krylon makes. I use the acrylic clear sealer with UV protection on painted objects i place out side and have tried it twice, once in a inkjet magnetic paper photo print and window decal paper. The magnetic was a few days old while the clear sticker was about 1 1/2 years old. I notice a green tint to gray areas when spraying the magnetic paper but not on the window decal but that was a graphic print and haven't really checked the window if it held up becasue the other decal faded over time. When i wrote krylon about this they said none of there sealers have been tested on inkjet printings so no data was avaible on the problem. One thing i did spray the magnetic paper on a green painted table in direct sun but the paint on the table wes years old. The windows decal was sprayed in my basement on cardboard.
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Old Nov 25, 2002, 3:25 PM   #6
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Default Acrylic sealers; what do you think

One way then to stop the UV effect and maybe the gas effect is using an acrylic clear sealer like krylon makes. I use the acrylic clear sealer with UV protection on painted objects i place out side and have tried it twice, once in a inkjet magnetic paper photo print and window decal paper. The magnetic was a few days old while the clear sticker was about 1 1/2 years old. I notice a green tint to gray areas when spraying the magnetic paper but not on the window decal but that was a graphic print and haven't really checked the window if it held up becasue the other decal faded over time. When i wrote krylon about this they said none of there sealers have been tested on inkjet printings so no data was avaible on the problem. One thing i did spray the magnetic paper on a green painted table in direct sun but the paint on the table wes years old. The windows decal was sprayed in my basement on cardboard.
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Old Nov 25, 2002, 7:46 PM   #7
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There has been a lot of controversy about the problems reported on the Epson 870/1270 printers. A lot of Web Sites report problems that have already been solved.

I've used an Epson 1270 with "clone" ink and Epson Heavyweight Matte paper without a problem for over a year. When you click on a link, be sure to look at the date on that link. I'll bet a lot of the information you find is out of date. The bad old days produced a lot of controversity and noise.

In my post above, all I wanted to indicate was that most manufacturers are producing inks and papers that are greatly improved. I also will challenge the statement that "archival ink" is limited to the two printers mentioned. While "Archival Ink" is a marketing term. The proof of the pudding is whether your printer will put out a long lasting picture on the ink/paper combination you are using. In most cases, a modern printer will do that, regardless of the manufacturer if you select, as long as you use the right paper and ink.

I use no sprays or other coatings and my pix look great after a year.
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Old Nov 26, 2002, 7:45 AM   #8
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Wildman,

I agree that Epson have largely corrected the problem that they had with orange shift (gas fading) a couple of years ago. I also agree that many (most?) people do not experience gas fading, in some cases because they do not keep their photos exposed for long enough to notice it or never do a comparison against a fresh print.

However, on other forums there are still complaints from people experiencing colour changes in 2-3 weeks.

What paper you print on is very important, and you use Epson HWM which is one of the most fade resistant. Also environment seems to be important - humidity certainly affects gas fading and there is a very strong suspicion that ozone and atmospheric pollutants have an effect. Of course, how you exhibit your prints is extremely important - an unprotected photograph on a refigerator will fade or change colour much quicker than one in an album or behind glass.

However, if you are selling your prints, you have to be very worried about print life and UV fading - one year is hardly enough! The manufacturers' quoted figures do not represent real world print life expectancy because they are measured at very low light levels. This is why so many professionals are carrying out fading tests at the moment - the second link I posted above refers to on-going experiments, and there are other sites which publish fading data.

The reason that the Epson 2100/2200 has been such a successful printer with professionals is that, because it uses pigment inks, prints from it will unquestionably last longer than those from dye ink printers like the Canon S9000 or the Epson 1270/1280.

Chris
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Old Nov 28, 2002, 2:19 AM   #9
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The epson 1280 is a good printer and actually we have a customer who tested this that the prints do fade slower on the epson printer than the canon the difference in direct sunlight becomes a 4 day difference for the same fade in a one month span. But if you want better archival for your canon or epson. He tested that if you use epson colorlife semigloss paper and colorcalibrate it your prints will last 3 times longer on both printers.


Orange shift was actually corrected for in the paper. This problem was also only on glossy paper. If someone picked up an old formulation of paper and printed on it they might have a problem. Epson did correct this. They even had a buyotu for customers who had problems.
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