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Old Oct 18, 2005, 4:57 AM   #31
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:blah:NEXT, Here is the DATA!




[align=left]Canon printers win The Reader's Choice Award with the highest overall score ![/align]


"Last year's tight race for the top spot in the printer market gets even closer this year. Hewlett-Packard earns a significantly better than average rating this time around, as it has for many years, but Canon's absolutely stellar ratings, especially among newer printers, home printers, and photo printers, look to be helping it slowly pull away from the perennial favorite. Still, the two share the Readers' Choice award —
for now."

– Sebastian Rupley, PC Magazine

Among the top twelve printer manufacturers, Canon held or matched the highest score in every testing criteria.


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Old Oct 18, 2005, 3:57 PM   #32
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Regarding your attached images about Epson Ink :

What "independent" organization conducted the testing?

Can I get a complete copy of the document?

Also, since the testing was done on an old discontinued model Epson 950/960, how can we say that it's valid for the current, newer model Epson printers.
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Old Oct 18, 2005, 9:24 PM   #33
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Confidentiality prohibits me from distributing the document, regarding the ink in its entirety. I can attest though, that since I have a copy of that document, it can be and is used "freely" among the vendor that would benefit from its conclusions. As far as it being valid on current models, Epson has only changed "ink" formulas, the manufacturing process of the ink "cartridge" and the "chip" that is on each individual cartridge still functions in the same manner. Any Epson sales rep would validate that to be true, as well as their packaging not disclosing quantity of ink.
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Old Oct 18, 2005, 10:27 PM   #34
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JPL wrote:
Quote:
Regarding your attached images about Epson Ink :

What "independent" organization conducted the testing?

Can I get a complete copy of the document?

Also, since the testing was done on an old discontinued model Epson 950/960, how can we say that it's valid for the current, newer model Epson printers.
I can agree that the oem r200 epson tanks leave about 3ml in the cartridge when empty, but 5ml isn't unheard of. However it's well documented that the older generation canons displayed the low ink warning at 20% which would include the older models discussed in this document. The way it was described by users of the ip4200, the new system gives you a low ink warning three times before telling you basicly you can continue printing but you risk damaging your head. It seems to not be a good idea to run your tanks till dry hince the new system, which is probally why Canon started chipping their cartridges.

The statement on color was *somewhat* accurate... ink is much like oil in a car, the fact that manufacturer can not mandate use of their consumable as a condition of the warranty. Neil Shade took the time to test two other options (mis / inkgrabbers) http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/inktest.html .
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 10:15 AM   #35
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XP-64 drivers are now available. Was just a matter of a short time. Just FYI, the consumer edition of XP will be replaced by MicroSoft again shortly, so here we go again.
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 10:40 AM   #36
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What he did NOT mention about the new HP gimick is HOW much ink is actually contained in those "Seperate" HP ink cartridges. Go to and check them out, one has 3.5ml of ink, one color has like 5ml, and another 6ml. The newest Canon cartridges still have 13ml of ink for each cartridge, and at the SAME PRICE. HP is charging the SAME price for each cartridge, but each cartridge contains a different amount of ink. Using their "Advanced" paper which is very, VERY thin stock, and printing on their "acclaimed" 14 second, "World's Fastest" photo printer, looks HORRIBLE! - You can see the pixelation! Out of the box you have the set the printer's resolution quality LOWER to achieve their marketed rating and set it to bordered NOT borderless. We have test this on the HP8250 and their newest ALL in one printers, around $399 against the Canon ip4200 and even the Canon IP6600d and got more prints on the Canon printer using each printers "default" print mode, right out of the box.

BTW, did anyone read the PC Magazine, 18th Annual Customer Satisfaction Survey? Compiled by READERS and OWNERS of all printer products? Canon has now, the HIGHEST customer satisfaction rating over HP and Epson, BREAKING HP's holding of this ranking for 13 consecutive years. HP will not be able to acclaim this standing for 14 years now will they? LOL Keep in mind, the survey was compiled from people who OWN these machines.
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Old Oct 31, 2005, 5:05 PM   #37
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iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
What he did NOT mention about the new HP gimick is HOW much ink is actually contained in those "Seperate" HP ink cartridges. Go to and check them out, one has 3.5ml of ink, one color has like 5ml, and another 6ml. The newest Canon cartridges still have 13ml of ink for each cartridge, and at the SAME PRICE.
Someone with experence knows to look at the yields rather than the volume. The price isn't the same but it looks like HP costs a tad more per page by a faction of a percent. The color yields on the Canon are rated at the 280p range and the HP is rated in the 200p range.
Edit: I'm aware that the big is 500p, just there is only one canon printer that offers light cyan magenta and big and small blacks.

CLI-8 list price $14.25 $13.00ish street
HP02 list price $11.41 $10ish street

PGI-5 list price $16.25 $15ish street
HP02 BK list price $21.64 $18ish street

The difference works out to be .004cents higher for HP for color assuming 200p yield. Black I don't know as the volume sugests higher than 200p yield. I wouldn't have mentioned it because it's so small of a difference it's not worth mentioning.

While we are talking volume in the 3.5ml to 10ml range, keep in mind that one of HP's inovations is an internal purging system that recycles the ink. Reduction in ink waste not only increases efficency but will lower long term costs. Diaper replacement isn't cheap.

Black 10ml
Cyan 4ml
Magenta 3.5ml
Yellow 6ml
L Cyan 5.5ml
L Magenta 5.5ml

What is worth mentioning is the wilhelm research tests that estimate the life of vivera inks on the older 8750 at over 100yrs under glass where the new chromalife100 inks are rated at only 30 years, a number I can't verify on the wilhelm site.

EDIT:
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/...200/index.html

According to this site the black yield is 480p, but they are not specific as to what unit of measurement they are using to get that figure. For now i'm going to assume 300 to 400p.
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Old Nov 1, 2005, 2:07 AM   #38
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iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
XP-64 drivers are now available. Was just a matter of a short time. Just FYI, the consumer edition of XP will be replaced by MicroSoft again shortly, so here we go again.
I'm aware of xp-64 drivers for the mp780. I don't seem drivers specificly listed for the other pixmas. I would test these drivers but i'm still on a 2800+ socket A machine and well the office tossed all their Canon inkjets. I imagine that at the very least even if the driver install doesn't auto detect one's pixma one can change the port to reflect where the printer is... but I have observed that the ip4200, the v1.90b won't do anything beyond plain text on the x000 pixmas. Best mode doubles in size. It's not very sppiffy.
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Old Nov 1, 2005, 5:22 AM   #39
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
What he did NOT mention about the new HP gimick is HOW much ink is actually contained in those "Seperate" HP ink cartridges. Go to and check them out, one has 3.5ml of ink, one color has like 5ml, and another 6ml. The newest Canon cartridges still have 13ml of ink for each cartridge, and at the SAME PRICE.
Someone with experence knows to look at the yields rather than the volume. The price isn't the same but it looks like HP costs a tad more per page by a faction of a percent. The color yields on the Canon are rated at the 280p range and the HP is rated in the 200p range.
Edit: I'm aware that the big is 500p, just there is only one canon printer that offers light cyan magenta and big and small blacks.

CLI-8 list price $14.25 $13.00ish street
HP02 list price $11.41 $10ish street

PGI-5 list price $16.25 $15ish street
HP02 BK list price $21.64 $18ish street

The difference works out to be .004cents higher for HP for color assuming 200p yield. Black I don't know as the volume sugests higher than 200p yield. I wouldn't have mentioned it because it's so small of a difference it's not worth mentioning.

While we are talking volume in the 3.5ml to 10ml range, keep in mind that one of HP's inovations is an internal purging system that recycles the ink. Reduction in ink waste not only increases efficency but will lower long term costs. Diaper replacement isn't cheap.

Black 10ml
Cyan 4ml
Magenta 3.5ml
Yellow 6ml
L Cyan 5.5ml
L Magenta 5.5ml

What is worth mentioning is the wilhelm research tests that estimate the life of vivera inks on the older 8750 at over 100yrs under glass where the new chromalife100 inks are rated at only 30 years, a number I can't verify on the wilhelm site.

EDIT:
http://h10060.www1.hp.com/pageyield/...200/index.html

According to this site the black yield is 480p, but they are not specific as to what unit of measurement they are using to get that figure. For now i'm going to assume 300 to 400p.
HP 8250:

Black 10ml
Cyan 4ml
Magenta 3.5ml
Yellow 6ml
L Cyan 5.5ml
L Magenta 5.5ml

PC Magazine quoted 27ml for the Canon BCI3 or now the new PG-5 pigment black and estimated a yeild of 1500 pages of text from the large black cartridge in it, rated at about a penny a page. I KNOW for a fact this HP 8250 would NOT yield 1500 pages of text with 10ml of ink in it. Canon is the only printer that carries two black cartridgeds in it, one for photo and one for black text.


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Old Nov 1, 2005, 5:29 AM   #40
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
JPL wrote:
Quote:
Regarding your attached images about Epson Ink :

What "independent" organization conducted the testing?

Can I get a complete copy of the document?

Also, since the testing was done on an old discontinued model Epson 950/960, how can we say that it's valid for the current, newer model Epson printers.
I can agree that the oem r200 epson tanks leave about 3ml in the cartridge when empty, but 5ml isn't unheard of. However it's well documented that the older generation canons displayed the low ink warning at 20% which would include the older models discussed in this document. The way it was described by users of the ip4200, the new system gives you a low ink warning three times before telling you basicly you can continue printing but you risk damaging your head. It seems to not be a good idea to run your tanks till dry hince the new system, which is probally why Canon started chipping their cartridges.

The statement on color was *somewhat* accurate... ink is much like oil in a car, the fact that manufacturer can not mandate use of their consumable as a condition of the warranty. Neil Shade took the time to test two other options (mis / inkgrabbers) http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/inktest.html .
I have used Canon printers with the "S" series, the "i" series and now the "ip" series. And always have noticed the "low" warnings, either from their light sensor from the prism in the cartridge and or now along with the chip, and ALWAYS, my machines would just finally stop when they're out of a specific color, LET ME replace the ink and then continue on. BTW, they have always been start enough to finish a complete page of whatever they were doing before telling me I HAD to replace an ink.


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