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Old Jun 27, 2005, 3:39 AM   #31
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iSAPS Guy wrote:
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:roll: Now who's making judgements about Epson's marketing strategies? Their R800 machines have a PictBridge port on them, and for people that don't have the need to print past 8.5"x11", and want to be professional, buy this unit. It is the same type of issue, like Canon and the Cd/dvd printing here in the US, their is a license fee to be paid for using Pictbridge. Just as there is a fee to pay Macintosh when "firewire" is used on a PC. I do not really know at this point, but a possible guess is that Epson didn't want to pay the licensing fee for PictBridge on their R1800. When using their papers and inks, a print is a print. Is someone is satisified with what their camera saw when reviewing the picture in the camera, I would think the image would have the same lightfastness weather is came directly from the camera or the printer. PictBridge does allow (as I have noted), a choice of 13"x19" at least when connected to the i9900 AND the newest HP large format (consumer model, can't recall the model number). I tried this in the store last week. HP's consumer large format evenhas memory card slots on it.
I proballly should let this one slide too.... but...

R800... everything I see on the subject says "NO PictBridge". Not even a front USB jack. When I said this in the first place I made sure to check the website just in case I was suffering model number overload... but absolutly everything I see sugests NO PictBridge. Now, you could be confused by the two ports, one ie1394 and usb. If there is PictBridge there isn't a logo nor any sign of it anywhere.

PictBridge (note the upper case P and uppercase B) near as I'm aware is what we call an an open standard. What this means in very simple terms the specifications are freely available, anyone can use implement it royality free. I.e. NO DANG LICENSE FEE! Not the issue! This would include ISO 15740 aka Picture Transfer Protocal {PTP - the offical spiffy acronym}. Warning, use in conversation is just as bad as using SCSI.

Now... the logo... that's another story. You gotta test with their $software$, submit an application, pay the logo fee, CIPA handeling fee, and the certification fee. But the protocal CIPA DC-001-2003 ... open! I could impement it on my digital watch for free if I wanted to... but i'd have to pay for the logo. <----This could be the issue but given that epson is one of the founders I highly highly highly doubt it.

Member list yep Canon is one of the members. woot woot I believe the 6 founders were... Fuji Canon Olympus HP Seiko-Epson and Sony... could be wrong though. Given the fact that it's an open standard it's rather a MOOT point.

Bought to you by the kind folks at the Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA), CIPA... making it easy for to print snapshots..
Rule of thumb: Sometimes those acronyms lead you to spiffy websites that will tell you what they are... who owns the... and how to use them!
Might I recomend these websites on the subject
http://www.cipa.jp/english/pictbridge/
http://pictbridge.ssct.co.jp/

Now the use of the phrase a "PictBridge port" is one I find irksome but I can forgive as just about everyone calls it that. You can do PTP over usb, PTP over ethernet (note not officaly established *yet*). Bluetooth though is not offical but they are working on it. And I imagine PTP over iRda if one was so inclined. Chances are i'm the only bugger that would want to, otherwise WiFi should do the trick if need be. I'm sure someone will implement PTP over sheep at somepoint... and PTP over smoke signals. "PictBridge support" or "PictBridge certified" is the prefered syntax.
For the future: You'll be able to print directly from your phone wirelessly. whooo hooooo!
I haven't looked at the core protocal yet... presently I have a handheld device that does postscript which works just fine, but what that dies my only resolve might be switching to pictbridge to convert diagrams into a2 from a handheld device (floor plans and what not) . Not as cool as postscript, but it's at least an open standard that everyone and their neighbor are using, and you can't get those dang handhelds with postscript support anymore :P.


How we learned something about Open standards, or in this case, Open Standards with private logo certification.

Firewire (IEEE 1394) / I link (sony's implemtation) / Chefcat (Michael Teener's favorite coffee cup) on the PC? Now that motherboards are comming with firewire this actually *could* be an issue. This cost is very transparent as the hardware it self cost more than the license fee.. which is 25cents per end user machine, $1.00 to $2.00 for higher end hardware, if you need more details talk to the 1394 Licensing Authority. But in this case, I suspect you are correct in the fact that OEMs didn't want to spend and extra quarter per machine when USB did the trick very well, which is sad as IEEE 1394 would have made a nice replacement for SCSI or even the modern SATA.

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fee to pay Macintosh when "firewire" is used on a PC
The name of the company is Apple. And you pay the the 1394 Licensing Authority... not Apple. Macintosh (not to be confused with McIntosh Labs(TM)) is a brand of computers by "Apple" (not to be confused by Apple Records). You should never ever ever say pay a fee to Macintosh because Mcintosh, which sounds just like Macintosh is another company all together. This is in very bad taste and would greatly anger many pro audio enthusiasts. And you use "firewire" on more things than "a PC". It's a very popular interface to transfer digital video. It is also a very spiffy hard drive interface and was actually desgined to be a serial replacement for SCSI.

This isn't to say it wasn't always a quarter for an end user machine.. Steve Jobs wanted a buck a port but everyone involved argued and the 1394 Licensing Authority was created. o/ yay! "Give me a quarter or I'll sue ya - eh eh".

If you every say this again, you should say "Pay a fee to 1394 Licensing Authority if used". totally drop "on a PC" as it's used on things other than PCs.

If you are interested in this subject, refer to IEEE 1394-1995, 1394-2000, and 1394-2002. Also IEEE 1394b and EEE1394c.






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Old Jun 27, 2005, 8:39 AM   #32
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:roll: FINE technology IS on the commercial models that I referred to: Here is an section from the information on the imagePROGRAF W6400:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...4&pageno=6

FINE - FINE stands for "Full-photolithography Inkjet Nozzle Engineering". The term indicates the technology behind the print head, as well as the print head itself. (Note: "FINE" replaces "Bubble Jet" and "Micro Fine Droplet Technology". The term is used to describe Canon's inkjet technology across product groups, both for imagePROGRAF and PIXMA line of inkjet printers.)

This does go for BOTH PROGRAFF models, the W6400 and 8400.

And again, I refer to a TECHNICAL document, NOT a marketing one:

http://www.canon.com/technology/pdf/tech2005e.pdf

As for the BCI6 inks, they have only been out a few years, already being replaced soon. Asfor the color accuaryability of Canon, this is possible:

TheBCI-6inks provide useof 1/6-density photo inks, the dot size is equivalent to 0.67 pl regular ink.Easy-Photo Print application software supports Exif 2.2. Exif 2.2 accurately incorporating camera data e.g. exposure rate, shooting mode, white balance etc., in printing. With Canon, it processes the colour range by maximizing the digital camera colour space (YCC) which is broader than monitor-based sRGB, enabling it to print high-quality images with virtually no loss of color information.

The optional iProof PowerRIP 2000™ for Canon ink jet printers supporting Post Script level 3. Even for design compositions, 3D images, and graphic art, image can be produced true to the creators expectations from the correction to output stages, color management of PowerRIP 2000™ supports PANTONE emulation, SWOP/Eurocscale, and color Sync, giving output with coloration close to that of the final printed material. ICC profiles are supported, and users can also register ICC profiles that they have created for themselves. This allows graphic artists to achieve perfectly accurate colour proofs.







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Old Jun 27, 2005, 8:44 AM   #33
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:? PictBridge IS in-fact a STANDARD and there is a document describing on HOW to obtain the "LICENCING" for it:

http://www.cipa.jp/pictbridge/conten...4guide1_e.html

To Quote from the above mentioned web site. Gee is see the word "Standard" everywhere. And yes, there is a FEE.

"To obtain PictBridge specifications, it is necessary to submit to CIPA the PDF file titled "Agreement for CIPA DC-001" that is available for download below.
This is the agreement for obtaining the specifications that describe the technical standard "CIPA DC-001-2003 (PictBridge)" drawn up by CIPA, "Implementer's Guidelines," "Logo Certification Guidelines," and "XML Schema." Applicants who submit this agreement to CIPA will be considered to have accepted the agreement when they sign it, and CIPA will disclose necessary information for obtaining documents and other information."


http://www.canon.ca/digitalphotograp...=133&tid=3

What is PictBridge? PictBridge is a worldwide Direct Print Standard developed by Canon, Fuji, HP, Olympus, Seiko/Epson and Sony. PictBridge allows digital cameras, camcorders and other image capture devices to connect and print directly to photo printers and other output devices - no PC is required.

Fine is the first print head to achieve an actual 1,200 dpi nozzle pitch.






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Old Jun 27, 2005, 8:54 AM   #34
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:roll:

The FINE print head's greater number of ink nozzles are able to eject up to an astonishing 147 million drops per second to achieve faster printing speed.




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Old Jun 27, 2005, 9:01 AM   #35
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:roll:Another standard that Canon supports, licensing and fee information:

http://www.cipa.jp/exifprint/contents_e/01exif1_e.html

The first main feature of Exif is its ability to record camera information in an image file when an image is taken. For example, photographic information such as the time and date taken, device name, shutter speed, and aperture setting can be recorded along with such information as the compression mode, color space, and number of pixels in order to allow the correct reading of the primary image data. This wide variety of camera information is highly useful for users as it allows the selection of images before printing and the recording of necessary data in database. Furthermore you can pull up header information of Exif using Exif compatible applications and use it for data management. The camera information can expand to make room for future application, thus enabling users to add new information along with the new features of digital camera.

Obtaining Standards and Logos:

http://www.cipa.jp/exifprint/contents_e/05format_e.html


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Old Jun 27, 2005, 3:47 PM   #36
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iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
:? PictBridge IS in-fact a STANDARD and there is a document describing on HOW to obtain the "LICENCING" for it:

http://www.cipa.jp/pictbridge/conten...4guide1_e.html

To Quote from the above mentioned web site. Gee is see the word "Standard" everywhere. And yes, there is a FEE.

"SNIP"

http://www.canon.ca/digitalphotograp...=133&tid=3
"SNIP"
Hello... never said it wasn't a "standard" I said specificly we call this an OPEN standard. I referted to the LOGO as requiring a fee, testing, and certification. I thought I described the process very well as "Open standards, or in this case, Open Standards with private logo certification. " Why don't you go back and re-read details partaining to PTP and come back to me. Needless to say you are trying to baffle someone you already knows a little bit about the process... and how it is a protocal that is not limited to any sort of physical layer. People like me would never be caught dead saying "PictBridge port".

I guess all these people developing for it are just a figment of my imagination.

But your whole point in the first place was "EPSON" having to pay a fee. Now you have all this information in front of you do they? Do we feel foolish now?

And cool, I remembered the founding members.

I neglected to include FotoNation as a contribuiter, but it looks like they did too.
Rule of thumb: Read these things first before making blanket statements
I thought my summery was pretty short and sweet and descibed the certification process perfectly well, and showed how it was different that "paying macintosh(sic) a fee on the PC(sic)". Does intel have to pay a license fee, being a contributer like Apple (repeat it again.... apple). I honestly don't know but i'm not foolish enough to say "pay a license fee to Macintosh for firewire". I don't care... I just know it's a quarter. I guess this is good for you because you can now say in all honesty "this pc is bad because they were not willing to pay a quarter for firewire, this one is good they paid a quarter".

Quote:
FINE technology IS on the commercial models that I referred to: Here is an section from the information on the imagePROGRAF W6400:
Great! If you'll remember I have no clue what it was called, only that I never ever saw a FINE label on their pro wide models. I'll still take this with a grain of salt. But I think the issue was your neighbors w9000.... and compairing comericial printers to consumer ones... dispite the fact they use different ink!
Rule of thumb: Just because it's on a website doesn't make it the true.
But you call it FINE till you are blue in the face... for all I know you are right! In the end it doesn't matter what it's called you're still compairing commerical units that hold more ink than the consumers editions are likely to use in their lifetime. ml of ink... liters and gallons of ink. Hmmmmm. You get a few points for positive marketing, but minus several million for reality.

Quote:
The BCI-6 inks provide use of 1/6-density photo inks, the dot size is equivalent to 0.67 pl regular ink.Easy-Photo Print application software supports Exif 2.2. Exif 2.2 accurately incorporating camera data e.g. exposure rate, shooting mode, white balance etc., in printing. With Canon, it processes the colour range by maximizing the digital camera colour space (YCC) which is broader than monitor-based sRGB, enabling it to print high-quality images with virtually no loss of color information.

Have you actually used easy photoprint? It's one of many applications that makes the color issue WORSE! Please use your "eyes" to make valued judgements and not quote some darn marketing brochure. And yes even with Exif and Easy Photo Print... even from a d70... even though the data is good, the output in my eyes in contrast to other consumer grade printers.. horrid! This is NOT THE ISSUE. Not to speak of plain 24 or 32bit rgb raw data from drum scanners.

I don't understand why you are fixcated with Exif. This isn't the issue, what part of your brain can't understand this? I have some ideas on a resoloution thanks to people who were actually *helpful* and didn't flood me with marketing nonsense.

Do you have any helpful information regarding actually using these products? I don't mean going and quoting stuff put out by the marketing department. Actual information based on experence using the products? You've got the ip5000, and the ip8500, and want to buy the mp780 (cause you sold your mp730 at a garage sale). You have the stuff... what is your resolution based on your personal experence using all of these products?


Quote:
The optional iProof PowerRIP 2000™ for Canon ink jet printers supporting Post Script level 3. Even for design compositions, 3D images, and graphic art, image can be produced true to the creators expectations from the correction to output stages, color management of PowerRIP 2000™ supports PANTONE emulation, SWOP/Eurocscale, and color Sync, giving output with coloration close to that of the final printed material. ICC profiles are supported, and users can also register ICC profiles that they have created for themselves. This allows graphic artists to achieve perfectly accurate colour proofs.

Wow, you mean I can get this? For my consumer grade canon? Do you have any clue what this means? Forget about color accuracy... you know how many people are complaining about a lack of document protocations esp when it comes to the *nix platforms! If what you say is true then you'd have an army of unwashed bearded admins worshiping you at a temple throwing little pickles at you. I feel like such an idiot that I thought you could only get powerRIP for the commerical units... but here you come alone and prove me totally wrong. There are limitations... but I can work out the design details later. You are so cool. If this pans out there will definatly be a a few orders.... mostly SO... but still..... Wow I had no idea... and I asked about this too.... guess I shouldn't get my information from support, I should know better.

Quote:
The first main feature of Exif is its ability to record camera information in an image file when an image is taken. For example, photographic information such as the time and date taken, device name, shutter speed, and aperture setting can be recorded along with such information as the compression mode, color space, and number of pixels in order to allow the correct reading of the primary image data.

Yeah yeah yeah... yadda yadda yadda.... not even going to speak about the Exif in photoshop.... but needless to say the consumer line, even with Exif data... even using their Photo print software... is far far far too red, tad too yellow... and even if vivid mode turned off isn't what i'd describe as accurate.
Gold star: To win an argument flood with meaningless marketing drivle!

Nothing you said at all has anything at all do to with color accuracy on the consumer line. Now postscript rip for their consumer line... whether or not that would help is beyond me but there are other applications i'd have in mind... assuming it is indeed available. Otherwise... you're going to have angry beared men, some of who use GNOME technology.

Have you used any of their pro line for anything at all? Anything?

Now.. oddly enough I actually got a real reccomendation from someone regarding bypassing the canon's driver tendancy to introduce extra magenta and yellow into my photos... without resulting to army of acronyms. Someone reccomended that I stop using any of the photo paper options and switch to normal paper, maximum pitch. Still working on the finer details... but needless to say... this would be helpful information. Would be nicer if the booming voice "leaders of the industry" would actually take it upon them selfs to fix this.... but if I can bypass this via plain paper mode i'd be happy.
Quote:
FINE - FINE stands for "Full-photolithography Inkjet Nozzle Engineering". The term indicates the technology behind the print head, as well as the print head itself. (Note: "FINE" replaces "Bubble Jet" and "Micro Fine Droplet Technology". The term is used to describe Canon's inkjet technology across product groups, both for imagePROGRAF and PIXMA line of inkjet printers.)
Blah Blah Blah... yadda yadda yadda... already expanded the acronym.... blah blah blah precise dots (see my concept diagram, rather than variable ones - lol). yadda yadda yadda... what good is being precise if the paper acts like a wick resulting in random saturation which can be easily observed if you print black or color background and white text 3pt. Blah blah blah... that paragraph is totally 100% useless and doesn't answer the question.

Now the BCI-6 inks... from my experence wick. Are you telling me this will be resolved with the BCI-7 inks? Have you used them? Can you print something with them... show the orgin and the result scanned on perhaps that new mp780 you plan to buy. Can you do that? Can you actually answer a question without quoting useless information from some website.
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Old Jun 27, 2005, 4:46 PM   #37
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Looks like you are only 1/2 the man.

PowerRIP 2000 does support S9000 i6500 i9100 on the pc.. i.e. a3 printers only. But costs $300!!! The last time I looked at the epson soft rip it was $100... only supporting the 1280 IIRC.

Anyhow to quote the dang site

"The drivers that come with your printers distort the colors to make the prints look pretty for the novice user but are not usable in the professional market. This makes PowerRIP 2000 the choice among professional Graphic Artists, Designers, Printers and Lithographers who know the importance of accurate color proofs. With today's Mac's, PC's and digital presses, old analog film proofing systems can no longer do the job."

Hello McFly! Hello! This is what i'm talking about. Drivers disporting the color, purple pandas periwinkle skys. Hello! What part of this statement do you not understand. So what you're telling me is in order to improve color accuracy I have to go with an a3 printer, an older model I might add, and spend $300 in software?!?! The bearded men are amuck, you angered the bearded men. The beared men are sticking with Turboprint, or buying lasers with postscript onboard (about the same cost as the freaking software) thank you very much for totally wasting my time.

But since you are such an expert... what about soft rip for a4 printers hmmmm? Where he heck can I find that?!?!

FYI it's 2005 now! See Two Thousand and five.


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Old Jun 28, 2005, 8:16 AM   #38
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
Looks like you are only 1/2 the man.

PowerRIP 2000 does support S9000 i6500 i9100 on the pc.. i.e. a3 printers only. But costs $300!!! The last time I looked at the epson soft rip it was $100... only supporting the 1280 IIRC.

Anyhow to quote the dang site

"The drivers that come with your printers distort the colors to make the prints look pretty for the novice user but are not usable in the professional market. This makes PowerRIP 2000 the choice among professional Graphic Artists, Designers, Printers and Lithographers who know the importance of accurate color proofs. With today's Mac's, PC's and digital presses, old analog film proofing systems can no longer do the job."

Hello McFly! Hello! This is what i'm talking about. Drivers disporting the color, purple pandas periwinkle skys. Hello! What part of this statement do you not understand. So what you're telling me is in order to improve color accuracy I have to go with an a3 printer, an older model I might add, and spend $300 in software?!?! The bearded men are amuck, you angered the bearded men. The beared men are sticking with Turboprint, or buying lasers with postscript onboard (about the same cost as the freaking software) thank you very much for totally wasting my time.

But since you are such an expert... what about soft rip for a4 printers hmmmm? Where he heck can I find that?!?!

FYI it's 2005 now! See Two Thousand and five.


:roll: Blah. Okay, he's right about everything! This guy must hold a CCNA and CCNP as well as worked for all three major printer manufactures - AS an engineer, all the while developing inks and owning a camera/photo shop so as to know and use every product out there as well as gain the experience and feedback from customers. Yep, he's correct about everything and everyone else on here is stupid. Maybe every marketing department in every type of business should go away and we should now start going to the pharmacy and not ask for Tylenol - that's BAD, it's a marketing thing, and ask for the drug by it's chemical name. So I guess everyone that creates a technology cannot name it, sorry for using the word FINE.
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Old Jun 28, 2005, 5:44 PM   #39
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iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
:roll: Blah. Okay, he's right about everything! This guy must hold a CCNA and CCNP as well as worked for all three major printer manufactures - AS an engineer, all the while developing inks and owning a camera/photo shop so as to know and use every product out there as well as gain the experience and feedback from customers. Yep, he's correct about everything and everyone else on here is stupid. Maybe every marketing department in every type of business should go away and we should now start going to the pharmacy and not ask for Tylenol - that's BAD, it's a marketing thing, and ask for the drug by it's chemical name. So I guess everyone that creates a technology cannot name it, sorry for using the word FINE.
Hello McFly.... what the heck do Cisco certification programs have to do with printers? Next you'll be telling me you've got your MSCE and that that somehow qualifies you to speak about printers.

And what the heck... all three major printer manufacturers? Assuming I worked for I dunno... Xaar I would be some how less qualified? What about Mutoh? Just because the don't make their own printheads that "somehow" doesn't make them worth speaking about? What about Andgraph? So what if you can't smoke around them, you won't want to, trust me! I guess they are not "big" enough for you. Geepers they're bigger than me!

And all three? What is it with you with working at many places. Either your have no loyalty what so ever or you get fired every other day.

And what's sad is I know jack squat about commercial printers... the biggest thing I've owned is a design jet. Read this very carefully, "My professional printing needs are handled by print houses, just like anyone else interested in consumer a4 printers". Once more "My professional printing needs are handled by print houses, just like anyone else interested in consumer a4 printers". You seem to not grasp this concept... Let me try another way, "If I need huge copy... I ain't going to have room for the printer that makes it". But you know what... people who are interested in A4 and even A3 are not going to give a white pile of bat guano but printers that cost as much as cars. And you don't even have anything useful to say about them, other than they exist. Well great... more options under the sun than Canon... but in your infinite wisdom do you even know what they are? Have you used them. How do they compare?

Ah yes.... to win an argument and save face... shine the spot light on the other person. This isn't about me this is about you... you coming across as a spammer finding every thread that has otherwise legitimate technical questions... and your resolution is to buy a Canon. But I'll take the spotlight for a moment... I am wrong about a few things... I thought you were one of the paid army of Canon Spammers who have taken it upon them selves to make discussion boards and wiki mirrors of their marketing department. As it turns out you, since you tried to attach a label to me... your a retail salesman working for places like Best Buy. Ritz Camera, and others i'm too lazy to find. I'm not the one who decided to go around and start saying "their heads use the same process as semiconductors". You presumed start speaking to me in a condescending way about CD printing and say, "It's like paying a license fee to Macintosh for firewire on the PC". Hello McFly.... does intel have to pay a quarter? Do they? I don't know, I've never asked. This is about you wasting my time implying that you can get soft rip for the consumer printer.... and wow... I had no idea you could it for the a3 models.... you did something right by accident... but you did so in response to be critical about color accuracy.. a resolution that would cost $300 and isn't available on my printer.

Either you are a spammer paid for by canon or your just some retail salesman using this bulletin board as a vehicle. You know a heck of a lot about Canons, and you *could* if you wanted to be a tremendous help to them. But this is about you saying the answers to all your problems if you don't own a canon... is to buy a freaking canon. And you know... they don't do everything... I wish they did. But your total Canon bias and tunnel vision makes you absolutely useless in any dialog about comparative technologies.

You presume to speak about FINE technology, but you've said jack about it. You seem to think it's also a nice spiffy acronym used on their pro wide models... great... go look at one and see if it has a nice "FINE" label on it. I don't know if they do, I don't really care. But look at the dang concept digram I uploaded... not your marketing ones, the one with pretty little lablels the concept one. Look at it... Now compare it to piezo electric. Start by talking about how having a precise accurate drop size while requiring separate outlets compares to a more versatile variable drop size. When speaking about the number of nozzles include a freaking scale otherwise it's useless information. This would make an excellent thesis... one which I'd take the time to read.

Tell you what, go Photograph your neighbors pro printer... what was it a w9000 (you called it a i9900 earlier but using imagePROGRAFH inks). You got a Rebel... go photograph where it says fine..... I'm curious now. Your the first person who ever said their pro wides also use the slogan "FINE".
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But this is about you employing the basic yankie salesman technique of making people feel stupid and forcing them to listen to you. While in America we are freaking rude creatures and this works... step out of the box once and a while and understand that there are people who know more than you do... a lot of them. And this condescending attitude we yanks share of the very thesis of rude. I am a human being with my own brain, my own eyes, and my own thoughts... each of which is no more or less valuable than someone else's. Actually better not think that way it might affect your numbers. I know, i'm a yank and I oops off people the world over, not because I try because I don't know any better. But the difference between you and I is I know this, I understand this... and I understand there are people on this forum who's experience outweighs mine by a thousand fold. Look at them. Shake off your superior attitude and Canon bias and look and learn. Be right, be wrong.. learn from your mistakes and successes equally.

What is so sick and sad is you have here a valuable tool to gain useful information for Canon... and heaven forbid... reasons people don't buy them. Someone like you collecting this information would be invaluable to Canon... and you don't have to leave home to do it. Rather than assuming they are the leaders of the imaging industry (hello Mc Fly... consumer printers) and must know what they are doing... actually find out what we think they are doing wrong... and let them decide if their right.
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You totally wasted my time hunting around for soft rip on the Canons, and the funny thing is I don't think you even understand why this would be useful. You've probably seen only the marketing on Postscript. As a salesman... you'll find the following information invaluable to customers... many of who are buying into WinXp 64 which near as i'm aware (Please for the love of god correct me if i'm wrong – I want to be freaking wrong on this) Canon neither has xp-64 drivers nor places to make them. This issue affects XP-64 users as well as Linux or *nix users (I'm sure you've heard of SCO – SGI – Sun). Now the wonderful thing about Postscript above and beyond it's wide acceptance in graphics is the fact that it is.... it is a universal standard among printers. If Joe Blow computer user, the one you sold a copy of "Computers For Dummies" last week and wasn't insulted by it... as you what printers are guaranteed to work under xp-64... you can show him to the lasers. You can say in all honesty "This $500 laser while costing more than you want to spend will work with absolutely anything past present and future from a 20 year old computer to latest and greatest because it uses a standard that has been in use for longer than i've been alive". What you totally wasted my time on is the fact that soft rip for the consumer grade would mean that thousands of these printers won't have to be chucked out the window cause they don't work anymore.. while yes i'd have to keep a box and a dedicated OS in service to make it work.... that's better than a paperweight, which is what the consumer canons are becoming. And don't give me flack about "xp64 is for professionals"... xp64 is free till the end of july for anyone who has pro. But I hope you learned something to tell that customer who asks about "I won't want to be obsolete in a year" Oh but wait, you're probably more interested in people selling their printer at a garage sale (cough mp730) and buying a new one with the go faster stripes (cough mp780).

This isn't about me... this is about you. Some how taking it upon him self to promote not only Canon's paper, but their consumer and industrial printers, anything with a Canon label... yet work in a retail store unless I'm misunderstanding. Sure it's possible that some odd ball would rather deal with you and a fulfillment program than a real dealer who'd likely have a better price...but unless you've actually seen, touched or used one any information you have is going to be limited to what's on the box.

Is it your job to take any statement we have and flood us with stuff that's on some website? Is Canon paying you are are you doing this on your own. No one I've talked to has ever heard of you. The HP reps who take it upon them selves to hit discussion boards are so much cooler. Not only will they e-mail copy they printed them selves, but they will take the time to actually *troubleshoot* issues... and even take your data and try to reproduce the error and offer a *resolution*. Why don't you learn from the HP example as they try to dig them selves out of the Carlie pit shall we?

Quote:
Maybe every marketing department in every type of business should go away and we should now start going to the pharmacy and not ask for Tylenol - that's BAD, it's a marketing thing, and ask for the drug by it's chemical name. So I guess everyone that creates a technology cannot name it, sorry for using the word FINE.
Hey now... I do Aleive from time to time... over the counter version of Naproxen Sodium. Nice stuff - not as nice as Daypro - oxaprozin another nonsteroidal anti-inflamatary but not over the counter. I find the Daypro makes my ears ring, but the Naproxen Sodium while mild is an acceptable substute if you can't see a doctor. Toss up between that and Advil - Ibuprofin. Excedrin is nice... esp their migraine version, "acetaminophen acetylsalicylic acid caffeine", but even the regular stuff has caffeine in it. Many generics are pretty much just the acetylsalicylic acid... some others a mix of acetylsalicylic acid and caffeine. I prefer my acetylsalicylic (AKA ASA in canada) acid with caffeine personaly... but friends allergic might pick Bayer which I think has a caffeine free option. I forget what the brits call Tylenol.. Panthanol perhaps? Same stuff different label.

But anyways you should always skip past the marketing hype whether you looking for a Analgesic, Anti Inflammatory, Antipyretic, Antirheumatic, Antithrombotic, Myocardial infarction prophylactic, Myocardial reinfarction prophylactic, or a Platelet aggregation inhibitor. Should help you narrow down whether your in the market for ASAs or
Salicylates. But this is the point, skip past the hype, and look at what it does!




zakezuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2005, 8:03 PM   #40
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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YOU SEE! He's a Pharmacist now!

zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
:roll: Blah. Okay, he's right about everything! This guy must hold a CCNA and CCNP as well as worked for all three major printer manufactures - AS an engineer, all the while developing inks and owning a camera/photo shop so as to know and use every product out there as well as gain the experience and feedback from customers. Yep, he's correct about everything and everyone else on here is stupid. Maybe every marketing department in every type of business should go away and we should now start going to the pharmacy and not ask for Tylenol - that's BAD, it's a marketing thing, and ask for the drug by it's chemical name. So I guess everyone that creates a technology cannot name it, sorry for using the word FINE.
Hello McFly.... what the heck do Cisco certification programs have to do with printers? Next you'll be telling me you've got your MSCE and that that somehow qualifies you to speak about printers.

And what the heck... all three major printer manufacturers? Assuming I worked for I dunno... Xaar I would be some how less qualified? What about Mutoh? Just because the don't make their own printheads that "somehow" doesn't make them worth speaking about? What about Andgraph? So what if you can't smoke around them, you won't want to, trust me! I guess they are not "big" enough for you. Geepers they're bigger than me!

And all three? What is it with you with working at many places. Either your have no loyalty what so ever or you get fired every other day.

And what's sad is I know jack squat about commercial printers... the biggest thing I've owned is a design jet. Read this very carefully, "My professional printing needs are handled by print houses, just like anyone else interested in consumer a4 printers". Once more "My professional printing needs are handled by print houses, just like anyone else interested in consumer a4 printers". You seem to not grasp this concept... Let me try another way, "If I need huge copy... I ain't going to have room for the printer that makes it". But you know what... people who are interested in A4 and even A3 are not going to give a white pile of bat guano but printers that cost as much as cars. And you don't even have anything useful to say about them, other than they exist. Well great... more options under the sun than Canon... but in your infinite wisdom do you even know what they are? Have you used them. How do they compare?

Ah yes.... to win an argument and save face... shine the spot light on the other person. This isn't about me this is about you... you coming across as a spammer finding every thread that has otherwise legitimate technical questions... and your resolution is to buy a Canon. But I'll take the spotlight for a moment... I am wrong about a few things... I thought you were one of the paid army of Canon Spammers who have taken it upon them selves to make discussion boards and wiki mirrors of their marketing department. As it turns out you, since you tried to attach a label to me... your a retail salesman working for places like Best Buy. Ritz Camera, and others i'm too lazy to find. I'm not the one who decided to go around and start saying "their heads use the same process as semiconductors". You presumed start speaking to me in a condescending way about CD printing and say, "It's like paying a license fee to Macintosh for firewire on the PC". Hello McFly.... does intel have to pay a quarter? Do they? I don't know, I've never asked. This is about you wasting my time implying that you can get soft rip for the consumer printer.... and wow... I had no idea you could it for the a3 models.... you did something right by accident... but you did so in response to be critical about color accuracy.. a resolution that would cost $300 and isn't available on my printer.

Either you are a spammer paid for by canon or your just some retail salesman using this bulletin board as a vehicle. You know a heck of a lot about Canons, and you *could* if you wanted to be a tremendous help to them. But this is about you saying the answers to all your problems if you don't own a canon... is to buy a freaking canon. And you know... they don't do everything... I wish they did. But your total Canon bias and tunnel vision makes you absolutely useless in any dialog about comparative technologies.

You presume to speak about FINE technology, but you've said jack about it. You seem to think it's also a nice spiffy acronym used on their pro wide models... great... go look at one and see if it has a nice "FINE" label on it. I don't know if they do, I don't really care. But look at the dang concept digram I uploaded... not your marketing ones, the one with pretty little lablels the concept one. Look at it... Now compare it to piezo electric. Start by talking about how having a precise accurate drop size while requiring separate outlets compares to a more versatile variable drop size. When speaking about the number of nozzles include a freaking scale otherwise it's useless information. This would make an excellent thesis... one which I'd take the time to read.

Tell you what, go Photograph your neighbors pro printer... what was it a w9000 (you called it a i9900 earlier but using imagePROGRAFH inks). You got a Rebel... go photograph where it says fine..... I'm curious now. Your the first person who ever said their pro wides also use the slogan "FINE".
I fits on a desk - W is a desk
But this is about you employing the basic yankie salesman technique of making people feel stupid and forcing them to listen to you. While in America we are freaking rude creatures and this works... step out of the box once and a while and understand that there are people who know more than you do... a lot of them. And this condescending attitude we yanks share of the very thesis of rude. I am a human being with my own brain, my own eyes, and my own thoughts... each of which is no more or less valuable than someone else's. Actually better not think that way it might affect your numbers. I know, i'm a yank and I oops off people the world over, not because I try because I don't know any better. But the difference between you and I is I know this, I understand this... and I understand there are people on this forum who's experience outweighs mine by a thousand fold. Look at them. Shake off your superior attitude and Canon bias and look and learn. Be right, be wrong.. learn from your mistakes and successes equally.

What is so sick and sad is you have here a valuable tool to gain useful information for Canon... and heaven forbid... reasons people don't buy them. Someone like you collecting this information would be invaluable to Canon... and you don't have to leave home to do it. Rather than assuming they are the leaders of the imaging industry (hello Mc Fly... consumer printers) and must know what they are doing... actually find out what we think they are doing wrong... and let them decide if their right.
-------------------------

You totally wasted my time hunting around for soft rip on the Canons, and the funny thing is I don't think you even understand why this would be useful. You've probably seen only the marketing on Postscript. As a salesman... you'll find the following information invaluable to customers... many of who are buying into WinXp 64 which near as i'm aware (Please for the love of god correct me if i'm wrong – I want to be freaking wrong on this) Canon neither has xp-64 drivers nor places to make them. This issue affects XP-64 users as well as Linux or *nix users (I'm sure you've heard of SCO – SGI – Sun). Now the wonderful thing about Postscript above and beyond it's wide acceptance in graphics is the fact that it is.... it is a universal standard among printers. If Joe Blow computer user, the one you sold a copy of "Computers For Dummies" last week and wasn't insulted by it... as you what printers are guaranteed to work under xp-64... you can show him to the lasers. You can say in all honesty "This $500 laser while costing more than you want to spend will work with absolutely anything past present and future from a 20 year old computer to latest and greatest because it uses a standard that has been in use for longer than i've been alive". What you totally wasted my time on is the fact that soft rip for the consumer grade would mean that thousands of these printers won't have to be chucked out the window cause they don't work anymore.. while yes i'd have to keep a box and a dedicated OS in service to make it work.... that's better than a paperweight, which is what the consumer canons are becoming. And don't give me flack about "xp64 is for professionals"... xp64 is free till the end of july for anyone who has pro. But I hope you learned something to tell that customer who asks about "I won't want to be obsolete in a year" Oh but wait, you're probably more interested in people selling their printer at a garage sale (cough mp730) and buying a new one with the go faster stripes (cough mp780).

This isn't about me... this is about you. Some how taking it upon him self to promote not only Canon's paper, but their consumer and industrial printers, anything with a Canon label... yet work in a retail store unless I'm misunderstanding. Sure it's possible that some odd ball would rather deal with you and a fulfillment program than a real dealer who'd likely have a better price...but unless you've actually seen, touched or used one any information you have is going to be limited to what's on the box.

Is it your job to take any statement we have and flood us with stuff that's on some website? Is Canon paying you are are you doing this on your own. No one I've talked to has ever heard of you. The HP reps who take it upon them selves to hit discussion boards are so much cooler. Not only will they e-mail copy they printed them selves, but they will take the time to actually *troubleshoot* issues... and even take your data and try to reproduce the error and offer a *resolution*. Why don't you learn from the HP example as they try to dig them selves out of the Carlie pit shall we?

Quote:
Maybe every marketing department in every type of business should go away and we should now start going to the pharmacy and not ask for Tylenol - that's BAD, it's a marketing thing, and ask for the drug by it's chemical name. So I guess everyone that creates a technology cannot name it, sorry for using the word FINE.
Hey now... I do Aleive from time to time... over the counter version of Naproxen Sodium. Nice stuff - not as nice as Daypro - oxaprozin another nonsteroidal anti-inflamatary but not over the counter. I find the Daypro makes my ears ring, but the Naproxen Sodium while mild is an acceptable substute if you can't see a doctor. Toss up between that and Advil - Ibuprofin. Excedrin is nice... esp their migraine version, "acetaminophen acetylsalicylic acid caffeine", but even the regular stuff has caffeine in it. Many generics are pretty much just the acetylsalicylic acid... some others a mix of acetylsalicylic acid and caffeine. I prefer my acetylsalicylic (AKA ASA in canada) acid with caffeine personaly... but friends allergic might pick Bayer which I think has a caffeine free option. I forget what the brits call Tylenol.. Panthanol perhaps? Same stuff different label.

But anyways you should always skip past the marketing hype whether you looking for a Analgesic, Anti Inflammatory, Antipyretic, Antirheumatic, Antithrombotic, Myocardial infarction prophylactic, Myocardial reinfarction prophylactic, or a Platelet aggregation inhibitor. Should help you narrow down whether your in the market for ASAs or
Salicylates. But this is the point, skip past the hype, and look at what it does!




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