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Old Jun 29, 2005, 2:07 AM   #51
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Quote:
:blah:Instead of giving away free printers and having consumer based contests for ink and paper, Canon needs to have a drawing with the grand prize being a trip, directly to Canon and an all out meeting with the engineers. This was you can ask all your questions, at nausium and I'll rig the drawing so your name gets picked! Somehow I think even visiting Canon's R&D department and talking with the engineers (IN JAPAN), wouldn't settle anything or satisy, lol.
I was giving you easy questions. I'm hardly an expert on printers.

Seriously, Canon needs to folow the example of HP and actually get some of their tech staff to visit the discussion boards. Combo market research / tech support.

Also I was illistrating how FINE is well repackaged and admitidly refined BJ technology. Not a bad move... it's what canon does best... stick to what works.

Now if they can only actually fix that feed problem... actually understand that xp-64 has been the goal of microsoft totally abandon 16bit support... and heck kill 32bit support.. and actually make a leap forward for crying out loud... and need to get off their lazy buts and write some xp-64 drivers as the present crowd is annoyed with their canon paperweights
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Old Jun 29, 2005, 5:42 AM   #52
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iSAPS Guy wrote:
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Not being the engineer, I am not sure. I will write this question down for future reference. BTW, do you need any ink? I'll give ya a great discount! And if you let me e-mail you privately, I'll let you in on a little Canon secret for this fall.
The problem you're going to run into here as well as many other discussion boards is ... many of them are are eningeers, artists, professionals, geeks and hackers who are going to have much more an understanding of the technology then you do. I meet people that know more than I do.

Canon is a popular product... and you can benifit those who have or are interested in buying it. Better still, learn reasons why they don't buy it. For example as a regular consumer in december it had no CD printing. I also questioned the wisdom of bubblejet technology as piezoelectric is going to be more tollerent of diffrent ink types, a huge feature. And in a fair contest using pictbridge same image, out of the box... the colors where a closer match on the canon. Tomorrow i'll actually illistrate this... on photo paper plus no less.

But being very Canon biased, you gotta respect the fact that others are just not going to choose it. For example HP with the three greys. Let me get your quote

Quote:
(which if you talk to any artist, lets say an oil painter for example), they would tell you that those are not counted as THREE colors.
Technicaly this is correct. I'm not an oil painter this was my father's bag, you mix white with black before it goes on the ezel (donkey/ass-dutch {close translation would be carpender's horses}). Inkjets don't operate this way, which is rather why it's the popular for inkjets to now include Red, Green, and Blue, otherwise you can use the primary colors CMYK to mix anything in the rainbow. Now... going with a pure black... well this can only get you so far. I've observed on the epson that it would switch to the colors to generate what it thinks of as grey, and sometimes it even works. The few times i've tried on the canon.. well I got a dithered artifact effect. But the HP... with the photo grey... very nice shadows.

The point is from a inkjet perspective, they are seperate colors... it has no ability to mix.

The market - Kodak from my understanding is cutting back on B&W paper production (I don't know the details, and news media is well... just that media). Well like many I didn't consider Kodak B&W paper any good so i'm not sad... and there is always Ilford, Agfa, Berger, Portriga, Kentmere and Foma, Oriental 'Seagull' (Ansel Adams's paper) just to name a few. Anyhow... black and white is still a very potent and powerful medium. It's still one of my favorites. While inkjet lithography isn't quite as archival as photograhs... it's getting there. And people like my self are thinking why do we need darkrooms anymore... oh wait decent B&W which presently HP is the only option outside of these 3rd party solutions.

http://www.inksupply.com/bwpage.cfm
http://www.mediastreet.com/cgi-bin/t.../quadblack.tam
http://www.lyson.com/quad-black-tone.html

But needless to say it is wrong to slam HP for offering a tri black cartrage. People like me are saying why stop there... quad tone mininium. And now drugstore labs and even costco are rejecting B&W prints because the look too professional and might be copyrighted... more and more print at home 'cause it's less hassle. It's nutty but true. Not a huge market, but come now... Line of inks going rate $55/drum in volume, software adjustment... under $5000 R&D.. would probally take longer to desgin a case like the older bubble jets had for those who want pure B&W and swap to Pure Color. Gain a little of HP's action and target those who are either tired of the darkroom or better still are looking for an alternative.

Valid reason for not picking a Canon printer... which is so odd as they do a decent photograhy line.



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Old Jun 29, 2005, 3:02 PM   #53
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Oh and while we're at it..

This I pulled off another forum.. a common complaint from the 850 up to the ip8500

Code:
The problem is this: - if it's (cardstock a4/letter is) printed 
with either of the Canons, there is a 1mm white gap between the edge of the 
photo and the fold when the card is folded. If I print to the Epson, the 
results are perfect.


Quote:
"Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding your Canon product. Canon bubblejet printers are not designed to print card stock. It is not a fault, it is simply due to the design of the printers. We hope this information is of use to you."#-1925551-

Which is funny as well 273g/m2 would be the max listed for the ip8500.
Yet the issue can be observed on these papers
LC-301
HR-101N
GP-401
PP-101


Market: Angry Soccer Moms (Much bigger share than bearded angry men). I don't expect much bending over backwards for the angry bearded men... but the Angry Soccer mom seems to be the target audence.


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Old Jun 29, 2005, 6:22 PM   #54
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The enslosed images are small samples taken from DVD covers left on a south window sill. One is Epson r200 and the other is ip3000, both respective OEM inks. The expsure was 3 weeks, both under the protection of a super jewel box Paper is "epson photo glossy" bought at costco in their 125(?) pack. Don't mind the poor attempt artistic wise, the tartan look for the logo was a foolish attempt that I have since corrected.





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Old Jun 30, 2005, 7:43 AM   #55
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
:blah:Instead of giving away free printers and having consumer based contests for ink and paper, Canon needs to have a drawing with the grand prize being a trip, directly to Canon and an all out meeting with the engineers. This was you can ask all your questions, at nausium and I'll rig the drawing so your name gets picked! Somehow I think even visiting Canon's R&D department and talking with the engineers (IN JAPAN), wouldn't settle anything or satisy, lol.
I was giving you easy questions. I'm hardly an expert on printers.

Seriously, Canon needs to folow the example of HP and actually get some of their tech staff to visit the discussion boards. Combo market research / tech support.

Also I was illistrating how FINE is well repackaged and admitidly refined BJ technology. Not a bad move... it's what canon does best... stick to what works.

Now if they can only actually fix that feed problem... actually understand that xp-64 has been the goal of microsoft totally abandon 16bit support... and heck kill 32bit support.. and actually make a leap forward for crying out loud... and need to get off their lazy buts and write some xp-64 drivers as the present crowd is annoyed with their canon paperweights
So the majority of people, schools, universities and businesses use windows xp-64?
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Old Jun 30, 2005, 7:46 AM   #56
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
Oh and while we're at it..

This I pulled off another forum.. a common complaint from the 850 up to the ip8500

Code:
The problem is this: - if it's (cardstock a4/letter is) printed 
with either of the Canons, there is a 1mm white gap between the edge of the 
photo and the fold when the card is folded. If I print to the Epson, the 
results are perfect.


Quote:
"Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding your Canon product. Canon bubblejet printers are not designed to print card stock. It is not a fault, it is simply due to the design of the printers. We hope this information is of use to you."#-1925551-

Which is funny as well 273g/m2 would be the max listed for the ip8500.
Yet the issue can be observed on these papers
LC-301
HR-101N
GP-401
PP-101


Market: Angry Soccer Moms (Much bigger share than bearded angry men). I don't expect much bending over backwards for the angry bearded men... but the Angry Soccer mom seems to be the target audence.


I have got a ream of card stock that I use on my current Canon right now. But I guess we are supposed to trust everyone that writes something in his forum or another thread.
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Old Jun 30, 2005, 7:50 AM   #57
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
:blah:Instead of giving away free printers and having consumer based contests for ink and paper, Canon needs to have a drawing with the grand prize being a trip, directly to Canon and an all out meeting with the engineers. This was you can ask all your questions, at nausium and I'll rig the drawing so your name gets picked! Somehow I think even visiting Canon's R&D department and talking with the engineers (IN JAPAN), wouldn't settle anything or satisy, lol.
I was giving you easy questions. I'm hardly an expert on printers.

Seriously, Canon needs to folow the example of HP and actually get some of their tech staff to visit the discussion boards. Combo market research / tech support.

Also I was illistrating how FINE is well repackaged and admitidly refined BJ technology. Not a bad move... it's what canon does best... stick to what works.

Now if they can only actually fix that feed problem... actually understand that xp-64 has been the goal of microsoft totally abandon 16bit support... and heck kill 32bit support.. and actually make a leap forward for crying out loud... and need to get off their lazy buts and write some xp-64 drivers as the present crowd is annoyed with their canon paperweights
If they're easy questions, then why are you asking?
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Old Jun 30, 2005, 8:11 AM   #58
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
The enslosed images are small samples taken from DVD covers left on a south window sill. One is Epson r200 and the other is ip3000, both respective OEM inks. The expsure was 3 weeks, both under the protection of a super jewel box Paper is "epson photo glossy" bought at costco in their 125(?) pack. Don't mind the poor attempt artistic wise, the tartan look for the logo was a foolish attempt that I have since corrected.





To be fair, the Canon print should have been done with their photo paper pro, and then look at the exposure (print), after several weeks.
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Old Jun 30, 2005, 8:13 AM   #59
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
iSAPS Guy wrote:
Quote:
Not being the engineer, I am not sure. I will write this question down for future reference. BTW, do you need any ink? I'll give ya a great discount! And if you let me e-mail you privately, I'll let you in on a little Canon secret for this fall.
The problem you're going to run into here as well as many other discussion boards is ... many of them are are eningeers, artists, professionals, geeks and hackers who are going to have much more an understanding of the technology then you do. I meet people that know more than I do.

Canon is a popular product... and you can benifit those who have or are interested in buying it. Better still, learn reasons why they don't buy it. For example as a regular consumer in december it had no CD printing. I also questioned the wisdom of bubblejet technology as piezoelectric is going to be more tollerent of diffrent ink types, a huge feature. And in a fair contest using pictbridge same image, out of the box... the colors where a closer match on the canon. Tomorrow i'll actually illistrate this... on photo paper plus no less.

But being very Canon biased, you gotta respect the fact that others are just not going to choose it. For example HP with the three greys. Let me get your quote

Quote:
(which if you talk to any artist, lets say an oil painter for example), they would tell you that those are not counted as THREE colors.
Technicaly this is correct. I'm not an oil painter this was my father's bag, you mix white with black before it goes on the ezel (donkey/bottom-dutch {close translation would be carpender's horses}). Inkjets don't operate this way, which is rather why it's the popular for inkjets to now include Red, Green, and Blue, otherwise you can use the primary colors CMYK to mix anything in the rainbow. Now... going with a pure black... well this can only get you so far. I've observed on the epson that it would switch to the colors to generate what it thinks of as grey, and sometimes it even works. The few times i've tried on the canon.. well I got a dithered artifact effect. But the HP... with the photo grey... very nice shadows.

The point is from a inkjet perspective, they are seperate colors... it has no ability to mix.

The market - Kodak from my understanding is cutting back on B&W paper production (I don't know the details, and news media is well... just that media). Well like many I didn't consider Kodak B&W paper any good so i'm not sad... and there is always Ilford, Agfa, Berger, Portriga, Kentmere and Foma, Oriental 'Seagull' (Ansel Adams's paper) just to name a few. Anyhow... black and white is still a very potent and powerful medium. It's still one of my favorites. While inkjet lithography isn't quite as archival as photograhs... it's getting there. And people like my self are thinking why do we need darkrooms anymore... oh wait decent B&W which presently HP is the only option outside of these 3rd party solutions.

http://www.inksupply.com/bwpage.cfm
http://www.mediastreet.com/cgi-bin/t.../quadblack.tam
http://www.lyson.com/quad-black-tone.html

But needless to say it is wrong to slam HP for offering a tri black cartrage. People like me are saying why stop there... quad tone mininium. And now drugstore labs and even costco are rejecting B&W prints because the look too professional and might be copyrighted... more and more print at home 'cause it's less hassle. It's nutty but true. Not a huge market, but come now... Line of inks going rate $55/drum in volume, software adjustment... under $5000 R&D.. would probally take longer to desgin a case like the older bubble jets had for those who want pure B&W and swap to Pure Color. Gain a little of HP's action and target those who are either tired of the darkroom or better still are looking for an alternative.

Valid reason for not picking a Canon printer... which is so odd as they do a decent photograhy line.



The problem you're going to run into here as well as many other discussion boards is ... many of them are are eningeers, artists, professionals, geeks and hackers who are going to have much more an understanding of the technology then you do.

" I meet people that know more than I do." -NO WAY! NOT POSSIBLE!
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Old Jun 30, 2005, 8:35 AM   #60
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zakezuke wrote:
Quote:
The enslosed images are small samples taken from DVD covers left on a south window sill. One is Epson r200 and the other is ip3000, both respective OEM inks. The expsure was 3 weeks, both under the protection of a super jewel box Paper is "epson photo glossy" bought at costco in their 125(?) pack. Don't mind the poor attempt artistic wise, the tartan look for the logo was a foolish attempt that I have since corrected.





Not a fair example, Epson paper was used on both. Canon photo paper pro should have been used on the Canon. Every printer companys rates their longevity with THEIR brand papers, this is common.
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