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Old Jul 22, 2005, 7:45 PM   #1
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I Love HP Printers. For all office and misc printing.

However, after having purchased a pretty complete Canon 20D setup, I am getting some pretty awesome pictures, and would like to get into printing some of them myself. 8x10's mostly, the wife 4x6. However, every so often that picture comes along and you want a REALLY large picture to mount on the wall & frame.

Anyway - I digress.

Up to this point, I thought that having the print heads separate from the ink cartridges was a recipe for wasted ink and clogged print heads.

So - that ruled out pretty much everyone but HP. So then i got to thinking, if it's so bad, why does everyone else do it? Is HP really that altruistic to bite the bullet for us? hmm.

So - I started looking at the i9900, the 8750, the 8450 and now the 2400. I constantly read about epson wasting ink on jet/head cleaning. So I am VERY leary of epson.

But I just can't for the life of me decide which one is better? I get lots of reviews, but none that compare them, or none that come out and rate them side by side.

My pictures will almost always be color - so B&W is not an issue. If it becomes an issue, I'll buy special inks, or another printer.

But - help me learn what to look for, or hear from everyone on their experiences with inkjets as picture printers.

Also - what about aging? Fading?
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 9:41 PM   #2
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Welcome to the quest of the perfect photo printer. I am on the same quest. I have a HP 8450, and although I love the photo output of this printer the ink and dry time of my photos have made me look elsewhere. I am going to keep my HP for b&w printing only. So far I have narrowed it down to the Canon ip5000 and the Canon ip8500. I am just trying to decide if I really need the extra ink tanks on the 8500 and if its really worth the extra $200 dollars. Needless to say I will be spending a lot of time at retail and camera stores this weekend. Good luck and check out previous post here. It will help you answer a lot of questions.
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Old Jul 23, 2005, 2:37 PM   #3
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Well, I took the plunge and purchased an i9900. It seems to be a high quality choice according to lots of people. Not as good as the Epson, but the Epson has lots of clogging issues apparently. Something that I don't need/want. Not to mention, I've seen lots of epsons that just looked terrible. Why I don't know, but I do know that lots of other printers I have seen have never ended up looking that poor.

I printed out a 4x6 on my i9900 and then one on my HP 6840. Quite the difference, as expected.

Anyway - I hope that I have not gone wrong with the i9900, and I am looking forward to my first "large" print soon!

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Old Jul 29, 2005, 3:17 PM   #4
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I had an Epson R800. Somebody else has it now, along with a lot of my other stuff (Robbery on Monday, last). However, if you follow the directions, turning the printer off by the printer switchafter use, I think the clogging issue is overblown. In a year, I never had one clogging problem, and I'm an occasional user.

If you are specifically looking at wide carriage,the R1800 would be a good choice if you prefer glossy and the R2400 if you prefer matte finish. TheR1800is an R800 on steroids. The R2400 uses a different ink set that's better for black and white (three shades of black)and gives wider dynamic range on matte finishes.

The only one I can comment on as far as observed quality is the R800. Excellent glossy output and good matte. I don't do B&W, so I won't comment, but I would expect a color cast. I have a preference for the more natural color (to my eye) of the Epsons, and the R800 doesn't disappoint. If you are looking for that pop you get with the Canon printers, you can do it, but you have to work to make it happen. To me, it's a little over the top.

Ink is expensive on all the printers, and you just have to tailor your use to the particular printer. With Epsons, once you turn the printer on, do a batch of photos. Save your work and print once a week if that works best. The printer doesn't clean the head between pages, just when you change cartridges or when you power on.

I have an HP-1220C, which I now use as a document printer. It's great as an always on printer. Even when I would get a clog, a damp paper towel could usually fix the problem. Printers with permanent print heads must be turned off between uses to avoid clogging issues.

Cheers, Eric
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Old Jul 29, 2005, 5:11 PM   #5
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Thanks for the insight. I actually have been looking at the R800. A Epson rep will be in town this weekend and I am going to really make him sell that printer before I buy it. I am not sure if I really want a wide carriage printer or not. Most people only want 8x10s and If I need something bigger I can take it to Durys Pro Shop and have it enlarged. As far as B/W goes I am going to keep my HP 8450 for that. It does an exceptional job.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old Jul 29, 2005, 8:28 PM   #6
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arowana wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the insight. I actually have been looking at the R800. A Epson rep will be in town this weekend and I am going to really make him sell that printer before I buy it. I am not sure if I really want a wide carriage printer or not. Most people only want 8x10s and If I need something bigger I can take it to Durys Pro Shop and have it enlarged. As far as B/W goes I am going to keep my HP 8450 for that. It does an exceptional job.

Thanks for the reply.
If you consider an epson... you should consider taking the time to e-mail this guy for a free cleaning manual.

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....bdb?hl=en&

There are things in the printer that seem trivial such as the pad located to the far right that are essental to its continued operation without (much) risk of clogging. Never go epson without a good cleaning manual.



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Old Jul 29, 2005, 8:55 PM   #7
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Hey zakezuke. Have not heard from you in a while. Let me run this by you and give me your opinion.

These are the things on a printer that do not matter to me.

1. Speed

2. Stand alone printing

3. B/W Printing

4. Card readers and preview screens

5. Looks (size,color etc.

6. Text and graphic printing

These are the things that do matter

1. INK CONSUMPTION

2. PHOTO DRYNESS ( time between printer release and photo handling and saving in photo album and picture frames.)

3. PRINTHEAD CLOGGING AND EASE OF CLEANING PRINTHEAD

4. PHOTO QUALITY AND COLOR ACCURACY. (not just monitor to printer accuracy but overall color reproduction)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. And I am not limited to normal format printers. If a wide format is the way to go then so be it. But I do not want to spend more than $600.00.


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Old Jul 29, 2005, 10:06 PM   #8
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I will chime in here. I picked up the i9900 and the prints are dry to touch when they drop.

Now, I have not licked my finger and ran it across a print, but I have taken my thumb and run it across a print strongly - and only noticed that I left a smear from my finger oils.

not that it matters, but a 4x6 prints pretty darn quick.
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Old Jul 30, 2005, 2:58 PM   #9
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arowana wrote:
Quote:
Hey zakezuke. Have not heard from you in a while. Let me run this by you and give me your opinion.

These are the things on a printer that do not matter to me.

1. Speed

2. Stand alone printing

3. B/W Printing

4. Card readers and preview screens

5. Looks (size,color etc.

6. Text and graphic printing

These are the things that do matter

1. INK CONSUMPTION

2. PHOTO DRYNESS ( time between printer release and photo handling and saving in photo album and picture frames.)

3. PRINTHEAD CLOGGING AND EASE OF CLEANING PRINTHEAD

4. PHOTO QUALITY AND COLOR ACCURACY. (not just monitor to printer accuracy but overall color reproduction)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. And I am not limited to normal format printers. If a wide format is the way to go then so be it. But I do not want to spend more than $600.00.

Hey... I haven't chimed in much because you seemed to have most of the facts you need really. Also I had a hard drive fire and lost all my links when I was doing research into the various solutions.

The link I remember that has images from r800 / HP 8450 / and ip8500 is
http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer...inters-05.html

This might give you some idea whether it's worth spending $300 on the i8500 or $400ish on the r800.

On requirement 4.. gotta say r800 is a good choice... if not the lower priced r200 if you prefer the look of dye on glossy paper. The r800 solves the issue of bronzing by adding a clear cart... where you "could" spray your prints with either shallaque or laquer if you want a fast dry clear coat, or a spar urathain if you want a longer lasting clear coat. I've noticed that the spar uratains might add a tad of yellow if your humidity is high... 90%+ where in it's natural state it's ever so slightly blue. Shallaque could be made food grade if one were to use grain alcohol as a solvent, but generally people don't eat prints.

The other good choice is the HP photosmart that you already own which you have difficulties with drytime.

---

On requirement 3... it's HP followed by Canon... HP as you get a new head everytime... and Canon as it detaches and as it's using the older thermal bubblejet technology is less prone to clogging just sitting there minding it's own business.

You are not happy with the i960, so you won't be happy with the i6000 as it's the same resolution, same ink, but with a smaller head. The ip3000/4000 are same resolution but no light inks... so I don't see you being happy with that either, leaving only the ip5000 which is higher resolution but the usual CMYKK (pigment and dye black), or the ip8500 / i9900 which include the extra color inks. The ip5000 to me looks less punchy than the ip6000... i.e. less unnaturaly vivid... no extra magenta/yellow for skys and cyan/yellow for earth tones.

---

On points 1 and 2 my pick is the canon. Epsons waste much ink. Going with a continuious feed system on the epson. Due to the high cost of epson inks I went with MIS ink and refillable carts but the carts I bought were a royal pain in the tookus... if I did it again i'd spend the $100+ for external tanks and tubes. The canon refillables with foam I find are less trouble even if their lifespan is somewhat limited.

---

But one worthy consideration... given the fact that you don't have need for fancy things would be buying an epson r200, or buying two.... two so you have one extra to use while the other is in the shop. The cost of the epson r200, which is a very decent photo printer is presently $70 at office depot, where replacement ink would be $77 depending on where you shop. The normal price of the r200 is about $100. The advantage of the r200 if it clogs and gets replaced with a referb model is it comes with free ink saving you close to $80 each failure. I'm very offended by the idea of disposable printers, but at the very least the epsons... the bum ones... go back to the factory and get a replacement head for the next joe who gets a clogged head.






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Old Jul 30, 2005, 4:34 PM   #10
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Thanks for all the help. Man, I will be glad when I can stuff my brain with all this info and actually remember it. For now I have a stack of printed info from all over that I go through every night. And this info will be added to it.

Well since I posted last my options have changed. My wife is requesting that we get a wide format printer. So I went toBest Buy ,sorry thats really the only electronics store around here that carrys a good selection, and checked out the R1800. Man that is one beast of a printer. I really liked theoutput on that printer. Very colorful but not to punchy on the vivid side. Buts thats ok. Most of the people I print for, and myself included, do not really care so much for puncy color as they do for clarity and sharpness.And this printer delivers that. They did not have a i9900 to test against.

Onething that I did like is R1800 did not have all those consumer extras such as screens and card readers attached to it so that makes me think that the extrahigh price tag is a result of better photo printing technology and not just sales gimmiks. Correct me if I am wrong.

After doing a little research the clear winner of these two printers is not as apparent as I thought it would be.

If I read things correctly the R1800 is not really a 8 color printer because of the 2 blacks and gloss optimizer. Plus it is still capable of the cloged head problem because of the inks used.

The only bad thing I have read about the i9900 is the print life being shorter than Epson. FadeingI mean. Being that all my prints are going into frames, Thats not a real concern to me. The only thing I wish The Canon had was the ability to print Panos on a roll. A 13x44 inch print has got to be a sight to behold.

So back to questions again. Sorrrrrrryyyyy. But, please correct me on any thing I miss represented. Post anything I left out. And give me your opinion on these two printers. Or you can tell me to forget all these and just go with the R200. Whatever it takes to please my wife, customers and my own pickyness over prints.

Hey all I really wanted when this started was a dry print in less than a month!!!! And now look at me. I am a mess. Please HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just want to PRINT!!!!!!
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