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Old Sep 30, 2005, 10:55 AM   #1
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I've read just about everything I can find on these two printers and I'm leaning toward the r800 (I don't want any chance fadeing). In some post, folks thought that the ip8500 might take the Chroma-life BCI-7 (now called BCI-8???) but Canon's web site still doesn't indicate this. I can only find support for the new inks on lower end printers. Does anyone know when Canon will introduce models in the qulity range of the IP8500 or ip9xxx line that will use the new inks? If it's not soon, I may be getting the Epson r800 or r1800.

Thanks,
Joe
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Old Sep 30, 2005, 3:22 PM   #2
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jlacasci wrote:
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I've read just about everything I can find on these two printers and I'm leaning toward the r800 (I don't want any chance fadeing). In some post, folks thought that the ip8500 might take the Chroma-life BCI-7 (now called BCI-8???) but Canon's web site still doesn't indicate this. I can only find support for the new inks on lower end printers. Does anyone know when Canon will introduce models in the qulity range of the IP8500 or ip9xxx line that will use the new inks? If it's not soon, I may be getting the Epson r800 or r1800.

Thanks,
Joe
The Chroma-life100 is canon's most recent formula used in both the bci-7 (japan) and cli-8 (not japan). I don't know the differences in color if there are any but cli-8 tanks have chips. One might be able to use cli-8 in the ip8500, and one might even be able to set the ip8500 to japan and set it to use bci-7 ink. I have no idea the result, only that it is possible. I think the japanese and not-japanese versions use the same head. But keep in mind that the Chromalife100 is only archival on Canon Premium papers in an album, life drops to 30 years under glass, and 10 years (canon internal tests I believe) not under glass on the pr-101 glossy plus paper.

The epson pigment inks, specificly the UltraChrome, are archival on most media types. While there are some benifits to Canon inks like drytime, the epson pigment inks win out in terms of life.
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Old Sep 30, 2005, 7:13 PM   #3
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Thanks for you answers, way too many if's with the Canon I guess... I had read "somewhere" over the past week or so that you "might" be able to do a firmware upgrade to the IP8500 to use the new inks.

This subject has been beaten to death I konw... I like the sound of the Epson's but they do use a fair amount of ink. I just got back from looking at the HP 8750 and it looks pretty darn good. Ink life is good, B/W look fantastic!!!! Limited papers right now but that's got to change if HP wants to be a serious player right? I can get this printer tomorrow from Sams Club for 449.

Joe
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Old Sep 30, 2005, 8:17 PM   #4
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jlacasci wrote:
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Thanks for you answers, way too many if's with the Canon I guess... I had read "somewhere" over the past week or so that you "might" be able to do a firmware upgrade to the IP8500 to use the new inks.

This subject has been beaten to death I konw... I like the sound of the Epson's but they do use a fair amount of ink. I just got back from looking at the HP 8750 and it looks pretty darn good. Ink life is good, B/W look fantastic!!!! Limited papers right now but that's got to change if HP wants to be a serious player right? I can get this printer tomorrow from Sams Club for 449.

Joe
HP is a serious player... but I tend not to look at the paper selection offered by the printer company. Sams Club should have bulk illford for a reasonable price. I believe the sams club deal as well as "Illford Smooth Pearl" in the offical ilford package are both the swellable type... the same style that offical HP paper uses. It's not the best option from illford but it's a good one and should work decently on the hps. The 8750 is a good example... offering gray scale inks. There "are" newer HPs that offer seperate ink tanks, as in a set of like 6 tanks.
http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?...=0&An=text
I don't know what HP printers use these tanks that are available at 10 bucks a pop but it's worth checking out.
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Old Oct 1, 2005, 11:10 PM   #5
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I decided on the 8750 after spending some time looking at the Canon 8500 9000 series too and also the Epson R800 and R1800. Set up was a piece of cake, and the images are unreal! I haven't done much with it just yet.

I'm allowing CS2 to manage the printers color (I use a SyderPro for calibration). When I held the print up to the monitor image of the shot it was amazing.

Thanks for your help,
Joe
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Old Oct 2, 2005, 6:16 AM   #6
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zakezuke wrote:
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jlacasci wrote:
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I've read just about everything I can find on these two printers and I'm leaning toward the r800 (I don't want any chance fadeing). In some post, folks thought that the ip8500 might take the Chroma-life BCI-7 (now called BCI-8???) but Canon's web site still doesn't indicate this. I can only find support for the new inks on lower end printers. Does anyone know when Canon will introduce models in the qulity range of the IP8500 or ip9xxx line that will use the new inks? If it's not soon, I may be getting the Epson r800 or r1800.

Thanks,
Joe
The Chroma-life100 is canon's most recent formula used in both the bci-7 (japan) and cli-8 (not japan). I don't know the differences in color if there are any but cli-8 tanks have chips. One might be able to use cli-8 in the ip8500, and one might even be able to set the ip8500 to japan and set it to use bci-7 ink. I have no idea the result, only that it is possible. I think the japanese and not-japanese versions use the same head. But keep in mind that the Chromalife100 is only archival on Canon Premium papers in an album, life drops to 30 years under glass, and 10 years (canon internal tests I believe) not under glass on the pr-101 glossy plus paper.

The epson pigment inks, specificly the UltraChrome, are archival on most media types. While there are some benifits to Canon inks like drytime, the epson pigment inks win out in terms of life.

With Digital Pictures today long life isn't that big of deal. If a picture fades in 10 years you can print it agian on new better printers. Imagine the printer technology in 2015 it's going to make todays printers look ancient.

Hell I had 4000 pictures from the 70's and with a scanner that does slides and negatives I made some new prints that make the 1970's pictures look sad.

In that reguard I think the Canon 8500 is a better deal or even try out the 4200 or 5200 with the newer ink system since you have the budget. The 5200 might be much better then you can imagine even though it doesn't cost $400.
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Old Oct 2, 2005, 7:41 AM   #7
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With Digital Pictures today long life isn't that big of deal. If a picture fades in 10 years you can print it agian on new better printers. Imagine the printer technology in 2015 it's going to make todays printers look ancient.

Hell I had 4000 pictures from the 70's and with a scanner that does slides and negatives I made some new prints that make the 1970's pictures look sad.

In that reguard I think the Canon 8500 is a better deal or even try out the 4200 or 5200 with the newer ink system since you have the budget. The 5200 might be much better then you can imagine even though it doesn't cost $400.
How long does your recordable media last? I don't have any actual tests for CD-R or DVD +/- R but i'm under the imrpession that their life is measured in terms of years, perhaps a decade or two. In theory professionaly pressed media should last longer but laser discs them selfs are prone to a form of rot. I expect in about 10 years or so i'm going to have to take the time to copy all my media again to the latest and greatest storage medium.

But this is all academic as it's pretty much up to the end user what they want in terms of print life.
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Old Oct 2, 2005, 7:51 AM   #8
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zakezuke wrote:
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KnightCrawler wrote:
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With Digital Pictures today long life isn't that big of deal. If a picture fades in 10 years you can print it agian on new better printers. Imagine the printer technology in 2015 it's going to make todays printers look ancient.

Hell I had 4000 pictures from the 70's and with a scanner that does slides and negatives I made some new prints that make the 1970's pictures look sad.

In that reguard I think the Canon 8500 is a better deal or even try out the 4200 or 5200 with the newer ink system since you have the budget. The 5200 might be much better then you can imagine even though it doesn't cost $400.
How long does your recordable media last? I don't have any actual tests for CD-R or DVD +/- R but i'm under the imrpession that their life is measured in terms of years, perhaps a decade or two. In theory professionaly pressed media should last longer but laser discs them selfs are prone to a form of rot. I expect in about 10 years or so i'm going to have to take the time to copy all my media again to the latest and greatest storage medium.

But this is all academic as it's pretty much up to the end user what they want in terms of print life.

If your a professional or just serious about your photos you can buy super high grade DVD+R's that havelike a100 year guarantee. They cost quite a bit more then standard grade media but you can't put a price on memories. :-)

I would still make backup copies myself though and store it in a proper place.
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Old Oct 2, 2005, 3:47 PM   #9
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If your a professional or just serious about your photos you can buy super high grade DVD+R's that havelike a100 year guarantee. They cost quite a bit more then standard grade media but you can't put a price on memories. :-)

I would still make backup copies myself though and store it in a proper place.
I thought it was a good idea back in the 90s to back up my stuff on QIC 125meg tape. Decent archival standard. Rugged design. Pretty sure my data is still intact on those suckers but... in order to access them I'm dependent on a legacy PC with ISA slots to take my propriority controler, as well as the propriority dos software that same with it. Well my PC dos discs are toast, as are the discs with the propriority software. Not like I didn't make backups, I had many backups as I wanted to ditch the 5.25 inch drive. So I have QIC paperweights.

Not a bad idea... though i've not seen any independent testing on the 100yr DVD media. But are we still going to be using DVD in 100yrs? It's been nice so far the fact that DVD units read legacy CD media, and the fact that both + and - R are supported on most units. But idealy one should consider duplication as part as one's archival system, esp when newer standards come out.

I have known a few people who take the time to print 3 images on archival photo paper seperating out the colors and keep the origionals in long term climate controled storage. While overkill for my application I can respect the fact that this system can be read in the future time.
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Old Oct 2, 2005, 6:23 PM   #10
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"With Digital Pictures today long life isn't that big of deal. If a picture fades in 10 years you can print it agian on new better printers. Imagine the printer technology in 2015 it's going to make todays printers look ancient. "

I didn't intend to try an make money as a photographer, in the past I did but that was over a decade ago and it was all medium format. This is my first serious digi after playing with a Dimage 7 for some time. Lookingto have fun, do something artsy, and I just missed it. Okay, so I've taken my camera out to the kids fall baseball and football games. Of course action shots and quite a few candids of kids etc... I printed a couple shots for folks and I'm being over whelmed with request to do more. Especially the actions stuff. So that's one of the reasons I'm concerned with a print lasting more than a few months/years. I intend to charge these folks enough to cover my expenses (ink, paper and maybe a couple buck more for my time.

Joe


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