Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Printers > Photo Inkjet

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 22, 2005, 8:10 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Hello,

This is my first post here, & I appreciate the opportunity. As I said, does anyone know if Canon is going to take B&W photo printing serious, like HP & Epson has? I've tried printing the same B&W photo on the HP 8450 against a i-960, & the HP was a lot better. I know that the only Epson printer to have true grayscale ability - Without any color residue - is the Epson Stylus R2400, which is quite expensive, due to it's larger print format ability. If I have to, I'll buy the Epson, because of the individual ink tanks. The HP just guzzles the ink. I would prefer buying a Canon with this ability. I would appreciate any input.
Burtron is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Nov 22, 2005, 11:31 AM   #2
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10
Default

I have a Canon IP4000. I had never tried to print B&W on it, but after reading your posting I thought I would give it a try.

Iused a vivid color image of a sunset and took out the colorby editing with 'FastStone' and setting 'Saturation' to zero. The result was an image in B&W showing every shade of grey. The resulting print showed no sign of color - if that's what good greyscale means.

I thought perhaps the printer was only using the black cart but looking at the print through a strong magnifier I could see the colored dots.

This is my fourth printer (after Epson, HP and Lexmark) and it's by far the best.
pebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2005, 12:17 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Thanks for the reply pebe - I understand what you're saying, but I'm talking about taking this B&W issue to it's purest form. And from what I've learned in my comparatively limited span of experience & knowledge, you can only get true quality B&W results when utilizing a separate dedication black/grey ink tank. Yes, you can remove most all of the color from the photo using different means to get a decent results, but I'm working on restoring very old B&W family photos, & you can really see the difference when you take the very same preferablyedited photo, which has never had any color before, & print it out on two different photo printers. You can see the difference - Specifically when using the HP 8450 against any other printer accept the new Epson Stylus R2400, but it depends on just how critical one is & what they want to accomplish. I wish that Steve had said something in his latest Canon printer reviews about how well these new Canon's produce B&W photos, as he has in the past on some others. Further, I'm basing my opinion also on what Steve has said on previous reviews, & also on what Vincent Oliver has to say in his reviews on:

http://www.photo-i.co.uk

Mr. Oliver gives a very thorough assessment of B&W in each review he gives - Including comparison photos between two or more photo printers. Anyway, I'm waiting for him do one on a new Canon. Look at his review on the Epson R800, & more recently the Epson Stylus R2400, which I'm probably going to opt for if something else doesn't pop up soon.
Burtron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2005, 3:21 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10
Default

Hi again Burtron. I looked at the Vincent OLiver review of the Canon IP5000. On page 4 he stated that the B&W prints were 'not 100% neutral' - whatever that means, and there was a 'slight overall warmth'. But I suggest that the average viewer would be hard pressed to fault the B&W pic of the young child at the bottom of that page.

Several times I have seen reviewers state that, eg. a certain picture is fuzzy or lacking in some way, when to me, the picture is just about perfect. In the final analysis, unless an aspect of a picure can be quantified, then opinion must be subjective. As you say, it depends on how critical you are, and you may not see the faults that some reviewers say they can.

In the end it is your opinion that counts, and what you see is more to the point than reading a review by someone else. So would it not be possible to visit your printer store and getdemonstrations of a few possible choices before making up your mind?


Edit:

Just tried a B&W with the IP4000 using the 'grayscale' setting for the printer. A colour photoprinted in B&W, but this time it only used the black cart, so no trace of colour.

pb


pebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2005, 6:22 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Hello Again pebe- I think that this all comes down to - as we agreed - the degree of subjectivity. I went back to Mr. Oliver's review of the Canon ip5000, & I think that he, as well, put it this way, "I did not find this objectional, but the purist may prefer to print 100% neutral grey tones." From what he said - That obviouslymakes me a purest. A while back, I did a restoration of an old B&W photo of my Mom - This was the one that I used when comparing the results of the aforementioned HP 8450 - actually it was a 7960 (Same gray ink tank) at the time versus the Canon i960. Really, there no comparison between the two - And this was not involving any color besides the gray. Further, I restored some old WWII B&W photos of men on a battleshipin 1949. It was unreal how much variation of detail there was (I felt like I was on that ship at times)- And that was the ultimate proving ground for what we are talking about. I also wound upcolorizing these photo - And that was most difficult part of all. I appreciate so much your opinion - I know that you're just trying to help me with my decision and to save me some money, as well.Lastly, I will do some more testing before I take the plunge again. One must always keep an open mind......

Regards,

Burtron
Burtron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2005, 9:42 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 29
Default

I have not done a B&W print on my new ip4200. I just wanted to point out that the new canon printers have a second black ink well for photo black.

Burtron, I don't know where your located, but in the usa some of retailers allow you to test the printer (best buy is one of them). Since your serious about B&W I think thats a good way to go.
eric93se is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 22, 2005, 10:37 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Good try - But you don't understand. So what if your ip4200 has two black ink tanks. I've been well awareof that fact for some time now.There's no way that your're going produce the kind of top quality black & white photos with just nothing but black. Please go to the site that I previously mentioned in this post - www.photo-i.co.uk Please read Mr. Oliver's review of both the Epson R2400, where he talks about this printer having three different black ink tanks: Light Light Black, Light Black, & Photo Black. Actually, first two inks mentioned can be termed as two different shades of grey - Or black. Also, read the review about the HP Photosmart 8450, which I now use. You'll find that this printer uses a photo grey ink tank in addition to a black. You've got to have lighter shades to go with the darker if you want to produce top quality Black & White photos. And this new R2400 that Epson has just come out with is the very first printer that they've come out with that can do what HP has been doing for two years. Now it's Canon's turn to do it. But they haven't done it yet - For whatever reason. I read an article the other day that stated the majorprinter companies had underestimated the interest that the prospective buyers had in quality B&W photo printing. But now their finding out that there's a lot of interest in it - Still.
Burtron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 23, 2005, 4:58 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 735
Default

eric93se wrote:
Quote:
I have not done a B&W print on my new ip4200. I just wanted to point out that the new canon printers have a second black ink well for photo black.
Their older printers do as well, at least as early as the i860 IIRC. But the funny thing is near as i'm aware you can't use both blacks at the same time... though there have been odd ball cases where it's looked like my ip3000 used a tad of composite black and just a smige of pigmented black. But needless to say I found it frustrating as I've wanted to do color and pigmented text but found no way to do it.



zakezuke is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:57 AM.