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Old Dec 12, 2006, 3:43 PM   #181
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websnail wrote:
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laikanuki wrote:
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However, the wierdest problem is the printer starts to lose a colour when printing, a nozzle test indicates either light magenta or light cyan has disappeared from the printout, a clean or a deep clean gives a couple of good pages, then the problem surfaces again.
I have a theory as I've seen this myself..

[remove stupid wild assed guess]
Wouldn't you just know it, I found this again today on two MP500's and I think I may have something a little more sensible to suggest.

The exit port seals..

You would think that if you get the ink to appear to flow in the right direction and there's no back flow that you're home free but I realised that if there's no ink printing out after a few blocks of that colour then the ink can't be flowing properly and something else must be taking its place... If it ain't the ink what else can it be? Vaccum? Nope, none ink flow would have been obvious immediately.. No, it has to be air... which means.. a leak somewhere.

So I pulled the kit and the printhead and checked the silicon replacement seals that I purchased from Hong Kong (30 sets in all)... What was immediately apparent was that there was slight ink leakage around the base of the problem colours seal so I pulled it off and lo' there was a nice sheen of ink leak underneath.. So I guess some of the seals I have are not particularly well finished or moulded. A quick replacement and now the problem colour is printing perfectly.

Ran off 4 duplex pages of block colour and it's now working fine so I'd seriously try that one out...
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Old Dec 14, 2006, 11:13 PM   #182
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Hi all, in reference to the Error 6500. This occurs as a result of two possible errors. 1 - the black PG5BK cartridge chip is in the incorrect poition.....OR remove the little coloured stickers on the front of your CISS cartridges. In some instances the sticker interferes with the LED reader as the cartridges initialize (move to the left side of the printer).

Regards, Sam Cahir

RIHAC Digital Australia www.rihac.com.au
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 11:53 AM   #183
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laikanuki wrote:
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However, the wierdest problem is the printer starts to lose a colour when printing, a nozzle test indicates either light magenta or light cyan has disappeared from the printout, a clean or a deep clean gives a couple of good pages, then the problem surfaces again.

websnail wrote:
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So I pulled the kit and the printhead and checked the silicon replacement seals that I purchased from Hong Kong (30 sets in all)... What was immediately apparent was that there was slight ink leakage around the base of the problem colours seal so I pulled it off and lo' there was a nice sheen of ink leak underneath.. So I guess some of the seals I have are not particularly well finished or moulded. A quick replacement and now the problem colour is printing perfectly.
Thought I'd just add to this as it's a problem that decided to bite in me in the a** quite a bit this past week..

I'm quickly reaching the conclusion that the problem of ink fade to "air" is caused by a tiny air leak in and around the ink receiver port and the grommet. Replacement silicon grommets work to a point but I've found too many inconsistencies and problems after a few hours that I've had to start replacing the original grommets and using a thin alternative grommet either home made or sourced from a CIS kit akin to Sam Cahirs offerings.

I have a few pet theories on the issue but it seems that replacement grommets are possibly too thick or suffer from problems through the use of a raised circle on the bottom. I'm guessing too much pressure from the cartridge is causing some leaks somewhere so you get the fading effect.

It's still early days but four seperate CIS kits have all exhibited the same issue, particularly the yellow colour.





In other news I've now discounted a number of theories I had in the early days..

1. Leaving the printer turned on, removing cartridges that have all been marked and accepted as empty, does not result in a full blown "won't print" error.

2. My empty cartridges used for a new CIS are still working fine even though they hit a "empty condition" and then the "cannot detect ink level accurately" message. All hit the "accept warranty bye bye" message and the whole kit is still working fine with all 5 carts marked empty now.



I also learned that my theory on using empty cartridges in new printers was accurate.. If the cartridge has been marked as empty the chip knows it and tells the printer. The printer will continue to work so long as there's ink being detected by the prism and then eventually it will decide it's logic is out of whack and give you the "cannot detect ink level" message.

In a nutshell there's no way around the whole "cartridge empty" routine.

All in all an educational few weeks..



PS: Sam... left you a PM and a few emails.. not getting replies though, please can you use the message system on here to respond... Thx.
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Old Dec 15, 2006, 12:57 PM   #184
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As I reported on another page the chip has a flash memory that cannot be reset and always remembers. Only a new chip with no input will start from scratch.--Gotta love that Canon.--Chris
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 6:23 AM   #185
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2manypets wrote:
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As I reported on another page the chip has a flash memory that cannot be reset and always remembers. Only a new chip with no input will start from scratch.--Gotta love that Canon.--Chris
Actually there's some debate as to whether or not it is flash memory or a fuse.. Not sure how far testing on that issue got but either way there's definitely something that indicates an empty cartridge on the cartridge itself.
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 7:32 AM   #186
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I really think the point is mute by now . The flash memory was mention by 2 ink refilling buissnesses. Memory Flash or otherwise is still memory. Reminds me of that sond. Memories like the friggin chipped Canon tank.
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 8:38 AM   #187
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Whether it is a fuse or memory is not the issue. whatever voltage outputs, or signals coming out of the chip when it is "zapped" can be emulated eventually in a replacement chip. I do not doubt that this will not go unsolved for much longer but what we need is someone with an oscilliscope and some other basic electronic gear to get some figures done on the chip as new used and "zapped"so we can compare notes and find out what a replacement chip must emulate.
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 10:31 AM   #188
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No offense folks but you're putting out opinions that were made months ago and have since been either discounted or disproven by people who were involved in deconstructing and creating alternatives to Epson, HP and similar chip/cartridge protection efforts.

The input that's come back is that it's nigh on impossible to come up with an alternative that provides a third party solution. The only thing that has come out so far is yet to be tested and that's a german solution.. unfortunately it seems that their solution is just like jumping from one burning ship to another because you swap proprietary products, not side step Canons.

This whole topic is one that many of us on here and other forums have looked at for a long time so it really would be worth spending some time on here, nifty-stuff forums and elsewhere to read all the theories, discounted ideas and plain wild assed guesses to see where it's all at... Otherwise you're really just heading back to the start of the loop..



Last point really is that Canon are only stopping 3rd party cartridge manufacturers.. They aren't stopping people from refilling, they aren't stopping CIS kits from working... what they are doing is making it harder for other cartridge companies to earn a buck from their products.. and making the end user work a little if they want to save money.

Compared to Epson and their chips Canon really have made life a lot fairer IMHO..
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Old Dec 16, 2006, 1:19 PM   #189
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websnail wrote:
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Last point really is that Canon are only stopping 3rd party cartridge manufacturers.. They aren't stopping people from refilling, they aren't stopping CIS kits from working... what they are doing is making it harder for other cartridge companies to earn a buck from their products.. and making the end user work a little if they want to save money.

Compared to Epson and their chips Canon really have made life a lot fairer IMHO..
yes websnail , as long as Canon are prepared to maintain this currentlevel of prohibition we re-fillers / CSI people will continue to keep using and buying their printers , (and occasionaly some of their ink).

But I fear the day may not be far off when they program the chip and Printer to be a lot more restrictive, we must continue to prepare for that in whatever way we can.

Just maintaining these threads and continuing to publicly challenge on a regular basis these excessive/ unfair restrictions may make them think twice, about how far they need to go to remain competetive , yes there is some repetition from posters of work which has been already done, but at least it keeps us (and Canon) ,thinking .

My own hope is that a new Printer Manufacturer (from the East), will see what the market really wants in a printer and provide it , i.e one which can use cartridges from any supplier which are purchased on merit alone and not as"protection money"via clever restrictive electronics. The World Would Beat a Path to its Door ! This "niche", (it grows bigger by the day ) ,has been created solely by the Printer Manufacturers themselves.


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Old Dec 17, 2006, 3:22 PM   #190
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I have a few pet theories on the issue but it seems that replacement grommets are possibly too thick or suffer from problems through the use of a raised circle on the bottom. I'm guessing too much pressure from the cartridge is causing some leaks somewhere so you get the fading effect.

It's still early days but four seperate CIS kits have all exhibited the same issue, particularly the yellow colour.
If there's ever an illustration of changing one thing at a time to figure out the cause of a problem this last 2 weeks has been it..

The problems I've hit have been:

- Grommets failing to create a proper seal and allowing air leakage
- Poor tube joins to fittings that resulted in a blocked tube
- Printhead blockage caused by..

.. a bad or incorrect batch of yellow ink that resulted in clogging and the fade to air problem.


I'd assumed that dyebase ink wouldn't have this issue but it seems I was wrong.. It was only when I'd removed every other issue (including: cartridges, tubing, seals, printhead, printer, type of reservoir, lack of vent for reservoir, etc..) that I figured out that I was seeing the same issue on 4 printers.

In some I've used full Canon cartridges which is what hid the issue for so long (because the Canon ink has been used until recently) but in the past 2 weeks I was able to source some empty Canon carts with chips intact and had created CIS's using these. Initial testing of a couple of prints showed no problem so it wasn't until later that I found that there was a problem.

Anyway... it seems that I had multiple problems in different machines so I should really have taken a step back more and realised the commonalities and differences rather than treating them all as showing symptoms for just one common problem when some had printhead blockage, others poor grommets and all poor ink.

Lesson learned there I reckon...
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