Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Printers > Photo Inkjet

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Mar 30, 2006, 11:58 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
Default

O/K Boys & Girls Bought the IP4200 today(£66.00 GBP)just to rob the cartridges from it,Popped the cartridges into My IP5200 all the flashing lights and the one that was switched off all returned to normal. The on screen display reports all full and o/k did no resets or anything just popped cartridges in. So how would the printer eprom know I had used a refilled cartridge as all I did was carry on printing with a empty cartridge,(which in fact was not empty) hope this helps clear the air, I reckon the spare printer cost me £10 GBPor thereabouts, Try and buy a spare printhead for that price
Barn Owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 30, 2006, 2:02 PM   #22
Member
 
headphonesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 82
Default

First of all BarnOwl congrats on buying a printer at a great price just to rob the carts (its what I should have done.... not just bought the carts)........but correct me if I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick.........

you had a 5200 with flashing carts and one gone empty.........and lightswitched off.

You then put perfect new carts in , never been used, chips have been told nothing about number of nozzle fires............they will work ok in the 5200...lights will be steady, ink monitoring will be restored.......they will be ok until they alloted number of nozzle firings have been reported to them . Then they will flash.

I was refilling genuine carts...........never went below quarter inch from top..never had a warning........the chip is told (and remembers ) how many times the nozzle has been used regardless of actual ink level.....since that chip started its life in the head. This it reports back to its mate the printer eprom !

I wouldnt mind betting if you sucked all the ink out of one of those new carts the chip would not know and would quite happily let you fry the head ......because the number of alloted firings had not been reached.....(please dont do this)

Sorry to rain on your parade.........(I should have bought a 4200 just for the bloody carts!)................
headphonesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 30, 2006, 3:40 PM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
Default

Yes you got it correct they are same carts. IP4200 & IP5200 no problems. when and if the compats. come along got a second printer on stand by. printer in stock at that price in uk I collected so no delivery cost just do a price check you will find them. One of the points I was trying to make was that Canon could not tell I had defaulted because I had not done anything wrong all I did was carry on printing with a so called empty cartridge
Barn Owl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mar 30, 2006, 9:59 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 31
Default

It is getting to be pretty darn funny when you buy a printer for its cartridges. I'd hope Canon would learn something from this debacle, but they won't.


cshel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 1, 2006, 5:20 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 54
Default

On my current continuous flow iP4200, none of the ink was ever used out of the ink tanks, they remained full as the ink was feed directly into the sponge tank. I got a progressive drop in ink levels on the status monitor and right on cue, as the printer was used, the low ink and ink out warnings were activated, so definitley the chip is the one triggering the low ink warnings, not the light prism. After disabling the chips, everthing works fine, however after a while, the printer flashes the message about chip not indicating properly, and the disabling procedure has to be done again, so it looks like Canon has programmed the chips to do this every so often after they have been disabled, just to create an annoyance.

Regarding the life of the cartridges, this has to be established. Bear in mind the cartridges are completely airtight in continuous flow system, unlike those which are manually refilled, which have the air vent open, this may make some difference.

I am using compatibleBCI-6 inks for the colours, which give a magenta cast to colour prints, custom setting the magenta to -18 gets the balance about right, a bit more work on fine adjustments may improve this. Compatible 5/8 inks are hitting the market now, but so far no indication anybody has cracked the chip, plenty of Asian companies trying but Canon has done a good job in protecting the chips. Another issue may be zone protection, it has become evident that Epson has different firmware in their printers for different markets. Thus an auto reset chip for Epson 67 which works OK in Asia will not be recognized by same modelprinter in Australia, even though they take the same model cartridges, even the samecompatibles work OK for both areas, but the auto rest chips for Australia have to have different instructions on them. Looks like it is going to be a cat and mouse game re the chips
laikanuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 2, 2006, 9:11 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 220
Default

Hi :-)

I've been refilling Canon printers for about 3 years now using ink from InkjetGoodies, I'd really like to switch to a CIS system on my current IP4000 or IP8500. Not a lot of choice here in the UK but I came across this one http://www.9to6.co.uk/product.asp?id=2471which at €41 seems very cheap, it uses spongeless cartridges and appears to be gravity fed as they advise putting the inks about 2" above the printer. Anyone seen or used this system?. Thanks :-)
phaedra1106 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 2, 2006, 10:42 AM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Default

With the help of Laikanuki I built CIS systems for 3 of my 5 IP4200's. I ordered elbows and tubing from http://www.inksupply.com and then sealed the top of my cartridged except for a tiny hole in the ink resevoir (the non-cotton section). Next I conncted the tubing to the elbow on the cartridge, and ran the other end into 20 ounce bottles, and sealed the 20 oz bottles airtight, then squeezed to push ink through the tubing into the cartridge. The hole in the top of the cartridge allowed the air to bleed out. Once I got most of the air out, I opened up an air hole in my 20oz bottle and put a syringe into the tiny hole in the resevoir tank on the cartridge and pulled ink into the cartridge from the 20oz bottle. Once I was confident there was no air leaking back into the system I used a hot glue gun to seal around the syringe, then pulled the needle out, allowing the hot glue to seal over the hole.

I clamped the tubes, removed the bottom orange caps (rubber banded them back on during this process) and put the cartridges in the printer. did several cleanings, and was up and running within a few minutes.

The worst parts were removing the stupid stickers on the top of the tanks, and sealing the hole from the syringe. On a few cartridges I had to suck ink in, and reseal them a few times to get it right.

On one of my printers I had to let the cartridges sit with their orange caps on them overnight to get ink flowing properly. Once I put it back in the printer the next morning it worked flawlessly. I have no idea why I had to do that, but it worked.

I thought about using one of those air pump things, but my cartridges already had ink in them and I thought that would be a mess. Using the syringe and pulling ink into the cartridge worked well for me.

I use the same ink as my pixma 3000's, and my i560's before that (except I bought some photo black from http://www.inksupply.com along with my elbows and stuff). I second the notion that -18 on the magenta gives a less "pinkish" look to things.

I buy ink by the gallon, and do so much printing that I end up wearing out around 8 printers a year, I had to jump through the hoops to disable the ink level stuff, but at $100.00 for a printer, I don't care if it goes bad. I figure I run around 150,000 pages through my printers every year.

I'll report back once I print off a few thousand pages from my printers (next week!)
Justin


Bmanetd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 2, 2006, 12:15 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 735
Default

Barn Owl wrote:
Quote:
O/K Boys & Girls Bought the IP4200 today(£66.00 GBP)just to rob the cartridges from it,Popped the cartridges into My IP5200 all the flashing lights and the one that was switched off all returned to normal. The on screen display reports all full and o/k did no resets or anything just popped cartridges in. So how would the printer eprom know I had used a refilled cartridge as all I did was carry on printing with a empty cartridge,(which in fact was not empty) hope this helps clear the air, I reckon the spare printer cost me £10 GBPor thereabouts, Try and buy a spare printhead for that price
I think the cheapest in the states for the ip4200 is $90ish or £51.00. Ink alone would be $70ish or £40. The printhead on the ip4200 near as i'm aware won't directly plug into the ip5200... I say this as their specifications are different. Whether or not this statement is reality would depend on someone actually trying it out. It is sometimes the case with Canon that they do employ the same printhead yet use different carriers. For example my ip3000 has a set of nozzles it never uses... I presume this is for the bci-6bk it doesn't use.

The cheapest i've seen the ip5200 in the states is $120 / £69, in fact I just ordered one. The print head (QY6-0061-000) I've seen for £95 on UK sites, $80 to $100ish on US sites.

But your point is valid... if one needs ink and a printhead, one should consider a new printer. Typicaly they are 1/2 to 2/3 the MSRP value of a new printer, a new printer might cost less than MSRP, and the ink represents 1/2 to 2/3 the value.


zakezuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 3, 2006, 4:45 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
websnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 475
Default

laikanuki wrote:
Quote:
On my current continuous flow iP4200, none of the ink was ever used out of the ink tanks, they remained full as the ink was feed directly into the sponge tank. I got a progressive drop in ink levels on the status monitor and right on cue, as the printer was used, the low ink and ink out warnings were activated, so definitley the chip is the one triggering the low ink warnings, not the light prism.
Yeah, I have to concur with this... I'm seeing the exact same thing with my UK model iP4200...

Quote:
After disabling the chips, everthing works fine, however after a while, the printer flashes the message about chip not indicating properly, and the disabling procedure has to be done again, so it looks like Canon has programmed the chips to do this every so often after they have been disabled, just to create an annoyance.
That's not good news but hardly surprising I suppose..

Quote:
Regarding the life of the cartridges, this has to be established. Bear in mind the cartridges are completely airtight in continuous flow system, unlike those which are manually refilled, which have the air vent open, this may make some difference.
I'd be guessing but unless Canon have worked out some sort of accelerated degradation system for their sponges I believe the carts should last as long as other sponged carts. The fact that the sponges should always be wet and aren't being exposed to the air probably allows them to last between 1 and 2 years.. It's all supposition though so I guess we'll see over time.

Quote:
I am using compatible BCI-6 inks for the colours, which give a magenta cast to colour prints, custom setting the magenta to -18 gets the balance about right, a bit more work on fine adjustments may improve this.
For what it's worth I've been advised by refillink.biz (based in Holland and an Image Specialists reseller) that the photo black and Magenta inks are a different type and I bought a litre of each for my own experimentation and printing needs. I'm not particularly colour sensitive to hues but it does seem that the blues are a little more prevelant but not annoyingly so... The reference I was given for the iP4200 inks were:
- Black (ref: 1020)
- Cyan (ref: 2032)
- Yellow (ref: 797)
- Magenta (ref: 6121)
- Photo Black (ref: 1109)


Quote:
Compatible 5/8 inks are hitting the market now, but so far no indication anybody has cracked the chip, plenty of Asian companies trying but Canon has done a good job in protecting the chips.
There's some rumblings from MIS Associates that they may have a solution in the wind and I'm guessing they are testing it but as yet no firm indicators of what, how or when it'll be available.. and I suspect they are looking specifically at CIS kits.

Quote:
Another issue may be zone protection, it has become evident that Epson has different firmware in their printers for different markets. Thus an auto reset chip for Epson 67 which works OK in Asia will not be recognized by same model printer in Australia, even though they take the same model cartridges, even the same compatibles work OK for both areas, but the auto rest chips for Australia have to have different instructions on them. Looks like it is going to be a cat and mouse game re the chips
Hmm... If that's true then it seems Canon was wise (from a business sense) to wait out the Epson chip experiment and learn from the mistakes made there.. Coupling the whole chip to location and of course the annoyance of that occassional warning is going to make the CIS system a real problem for many people..

Thanks for the info though.. it's the most complete yet...
websnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 3, 2006, 4:52 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
websnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 475
Default

Bmanetd wrote:
Quote:
I thought about using one of those air pump things, but my cartridges already had ink in them and I thought that would be a mess. Using the syringe and pulling ink into the cartridge worked well for me
Yeah... I can vouch for the mess side of things here but from the point of view of ensuring a good airtight loop I've found that I prefer this route and have a vaccum pump kit designated to get messy.

For anyone who opts to go the vaccum fill route I'd recommend you spend a little time ensuring you have a good solid seal around the ink port at the bottom of the cart as those orange seals aren't actually all that good at maintaining a seal. I spent half an hour trying to locate a leak only to finally nail down the problem being the orange cap having a crud seal. Replacing that with some electricians tape got me a solid vaccum.

Oh and just to note.. the reason you need an airtight loop is that if there's a leak at any point, you'll often find that instead of ink being pulled through to replace that used in the printing process, air can be pulled in instead which results in a dry cart and possible head burnout. Obviously that's counter to the whole CIS concept so worth noting...
websnail is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:43 PM.