Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Printers > Photo Inkjet

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Apr 15, 2006, 5:47 PM   #41
Senior Member
 
websnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 475
Default

Barn Owl wrote:
Quote:
Noticed today Makro Leeds UK. selling IP4200's for £69 GBP.(plus VAT) but also on display IP 4000 for £99 GBP(plus VAT) that I suppose tells they are not selling the IP4200's verywell
I suspect it's somewhat down to the fact that Canon are pushing the iP4200's a lot to try and get people "hooked"... That and companies with iP4000's would have to blind not to notice the demand for the unchipped printers..

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the long run.
websnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2006, 8:43 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 567
Default

Demand for last generation has driven up the price. Check this at Amazon of a 5000 - new for $349?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...Fencoding=UTF8

This while chipped 4200 is $79.99 at Amazon and CompUSA.

Ouch!
paniolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2006, 3:38 PM   #43
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
Default

I have a IP5200 and was wondering how the printer knows when the ink cartridge is empty? Some people think the firing of the ink is counted, this can't be true because I have refilled all the cartridges and although they come up empty before I fill them I can then use them again with them not registering as empty but as low.
Surely if the firing was counted, the cartridge would remain "empty" even if it had been refilled.
Anyone tried short circuiting the electrodes on the cartridge chip and seeing what happens?
scum2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2006, 6:42 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
websnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 475
Default

scum2000 wrote:
Quote:
I have a IP5200 and was wondering how the printer knows when the ink cartridge is empty? Some people think the firing of the ink is counted, this can't be true because I have refilled all the cartridges and although they come up empty before I fill them I can then use them again with them not registering as empty but as low.
Surely if the firing was counted, the cartridge would remain "empty" even if it had been refilled.
Anyone tried short circuiting the electrodes on the cartridge chip and seeing what happens?
Word has it that even when users have a continuous ink supply running to the cartridge it will still eventually register that the cartridge is empty.

I've not seen this myself but it's been noted by at least one person on this forum and I've heard the same thing from a CIS manufacturer looking into the Canon chips..
websnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2006, 9:23 PM   #45
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Default

I'll verify it. Even with a CIS system, eventually the cartridges show as "empty" and you have to jump through the hoops to disable the ink level stuff.

No big deal.
Bmanetd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2006, 6:33 AM   #46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2
Default

Yes I know this, but does anyone know how it works?
scum2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2006, 11:45 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
websnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 475
Default

scum2000 wrote:
Quote:
Yes I know this, but does anyone know how it works?
Ok... I'll take a stab but bear in mind this is more a hypothesis than solid fact...

1. The carts have a chip that we can surmise (from posts above) that it counts ink firings and will register an empty cartridge after a certain point in time.

2. The cart still has a prism built into it and we can see this is working as any attempt to refill the cartridge is detected and results in the "Your warranty just got binned dude" message*.

So, it's a pretty fair assumption that the two are being combined to provide the printer with enough information to tell when the catridge is and/or should be empty.

As to how the [insert expletive]ing thing actually does all this, you'd have to ask a Canon engineer but I suspect he might tell you but shoot you afterwards because it's all a secret.



This is the message received by pacific surfer types...
websnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2006, 2:43 AM   #48
Member
 
headphonesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 82
Default

Websnail:-
Quote:
2. The cart still has a prism built into it and we can see this is working as any attempt to refill the cartridge is detected and results in the "Your warranty just got binned dude" message*.

So, it's a pretty fair assumption that the two are being combined to provide the printer with enough information to tell when the catridge is and/or should be empty.

I have seen no evidence to date that the prism ,(although its still there ) plays any useful part in the ink level process , either full or empty or refilled. (i wish it did it might give us a bit of room for manoevre)

I believe the process is now fully numerical, printer brain tells chip how many times it has fired and tells it "you are now empty"(regardless), and you will remain in this state (even if some enterprising individual re-fills you). I think the prism is a design leftover......or perhaps if they ever withdraw the chip the cart will be ready to act as in an optical fashion in future non chipped machines.
Quote:
as any attempt to refill the cartridge is detected
I dont think any attempt to refill the cartridge is detected, what is detected is an"officially empty" cart is being placed in the machine and apparently being used and therefore voiding the warranty.......it doesnt know or care whether you have put ink in it or not....."This parrot is dead! "
headphonesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2006, 4:57 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
websnail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 475
Default

headphonesman wrote:
Quote:
I have seen no evidence to date that the prism ,(although its still there ) plays any useful part in the ink level process , either full or empty or refilled. (i wish it did it might give us a bit of room for manoevre)
I'd disagree, see below..

Quote:
I believe the process is now fully numerical, printer brain tells chip how many times it has fired and tells it "you are now empty"(regardless), and you will remain in this state (even if some enterprising individual re-fills you). I think the prism is a design leftover......or perhaps if they ever withdraw the chip the cart will be ready to act as in an optical fashion in future non chipped machines.
Quote:
I dont think any attempt to refill the cartridge is detected, what is detected is an"officially empty" cart is being placed in the machine and apparently being used and therefore voiding the warranty.......it doesnt know or care whether you have put ink in it or not....."This parrot is dead!
Actually I do have evidence that the prism is being used..

I tried leaving an empty cartridge in my iP4200 without refilling and it refused to continue printing no matter how many times I pressed "continue".

It was only when I put additional ink into the cart that it showed the warning re: warranty and then continued to print.

QED it has to be sensing the ink levels somehow...


What I would say though is that the printer is not accepting the input beyond "empty" or "some ink" though as we've already found the cartridge will still "run out" at a predetermined time whether it's actually empty or not.
websnail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2006, 2:08 PM   #50
Member
 
headphonesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 82
Default

Sorry Websnail ,
Quote:
I tried leaving an empty cartridge in my iP4200 without refilling and it refused to continue printing no matter how many times I pressed "continue".

It was only when I put additional ink into the cart that it showed the warning re: warranty and then continued to print.

I stand corrected.

Actually your test procedure raises an interesting point. It was my understanding that after forced use of "empty chip" carts it would never again tell you when you are getting low or empty.........but here it did,,,but perhaps that was before the warranty withdrawal notice.....I dont suppose the ink inside completes an electrical circuit with the chip .....?........(what little of it is left operating.....)

On a positive note I bought a 4200 Monday from Marks and Sparks , it was on special further 20% off for 6 days...it was last day but one......£55.20......well ....I thought the carts might come in handy.....

Just realised the ink has to be "noticed " in the empty cart so it is justified in telling you " you are cheating".....must do it just the once.....but optical or electrical its no help.
headphonesman is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:57 AM.