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Old Apr 3, 2003, 6:55 PM   #1
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Default Canon S820 vs. i850 (again)

Hello. I have read many of your reviews, but still am not sure which printer to buy. I have been searching the net for many review sites and have, also, read Steve's reviews. Can any tell me which printer is better, between the S820 and the i850? I am ready to purchase, but am in a quandry about these two. I just bought an Olympus C-50 digital camera and have an ancient Epson printer (the Stylus 600). I have had many problems with clogged inkheads, but I just clean them, which uses ink , but does take care of the problem for a little while. I use this printer daily, but it is slow and it is NOT a photo printer (I already knew that ). I would appreciate quick response to my question. Thank you.
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Old Apr 4, 2003, 12:55 PM   #2
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Well between those two models I'd get the 820 for photo specific purposes and keep your epson around for text.
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Old Apr 7, 2003, 1:17 AM   #3
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According to 2 very good sources (Steve and Canon Tech Support), here are the differences:
The S820 uses 'dye'based' inks and a 6 color ink tank system, which produces superior photo images, compared to the I850...the I850 uses only a 4 tank system, but the inks are 'pigment-based' and produce a 'true black', so the text is crisper. Now the I950, which uses the 'dye-based' inks, has improved the nozzle angles and has reproduced a true 'blue', so if you view your photo output under an 8x magnifier, you will see significant results for your printed photos...otherwise, go with the S820, 900 for photos and the I850 for text...blessings, Johnny
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Old Apr 7, 2003, 3:10 AM   #4
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I think you might have missunderstood just a little Johnny or only picked up on the cannon sales pitch. The Cannon i850 uses a Pigment based black ink which does'nt absorb into the paper as much because pigment is not very livid thus it sits on the top of the paper more rather than soaking through so it gives you a sharper blacker matte like text. But as a sacrifice on the i850 you can only do 600dpi on the black output thus the reason when it does photos it only uses the 3 colors which are dye based inks.


The only printers on the market that use pigment based inks on all colors with high resolution are made by Epson. Ie the c82, c80, c60, 2000P

The printers below use pigment dye mixes.
2200, 5500, 10600, 9600, 7600

Pigment inks offer both advantages and dissadvantages. The advantage is that pigment inks are heavily resistent to light and atmospheric fading on any paper. They produce a much higher level of colors in the cyan region of the color scale.

But the dissadvantage is that pigment inks tend to have a lower total color gamut because of thier resistence to certain colors of light passing through them. This makes what is called a metarism effect on glossy papers.

The advantage of dye based inks is that they are very transparent thus light is able to pass through them hit the glossy side of the paper and shine back very clearly with vivid colors. Also dye based inks have a wider paper versatility.

The downside to this is that the ink is not archival. All the archival abilities lie in the papers ability to protect the ink from fading. Thus the reason Glossy papers tend to last 10-12 years and matte papers last 22-25 years.

Printers that use pigment dye based inks tend to get the best of both worlds Higher color gamut than the typical dye based or pigment base printer at the same time get higher archival quality ratings on any paper.

The dissadvantage however is that not very many papers have the ability to support both dye and pigment inks on thier paper. Thus the reason you have to use the premium papers on these printers.

But if you say print and american flag on glossy paper with one of each and leave the print in the back window of your car everyday. Here is the lineup test so far that I've gotten. Using an american flag print

Epson 980 dye inks
Premium Glossy Paper- 1 year elapsed and print still shows red and blue reasonably well. at 1 and a half years all that is left really is an orange shifted trace of the print with very little red and very little blue left in it.

Epson c80 Pigment inks
Premium glossy paper - 1 year elapsed and print still looks new

Epson 2200 Pigment Dye based inks
Premium Glossy papers- Test only recently started
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Old Apr 10, 2003, 12:09 AM   #5
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Yeah, you're ight, Gregerson, I checked back with Canon and it is only the 'black' ink on the i850 that is pigment based, I guess the first tech didn't make that point clear enough. Anyway, Canon tech support stll insists its photos to be 25 year archival, because of the Photo Paper Pro, not the inks, so I guess that means my generic, cheaper cartridges will also last 25 years if I stick with the Canon Paper...by the way, I read on one of your posts that you think Epson Glossy Photo paper is a good match for the Canon printers..I tried the Epson, it was not nearly as good as the Canon paper, using my S820 and neither were the Kodak or HP papers, to my judgement, there was a very noticeable difference, not to mention the Epson paper I tried was very 'flimsy' compared to Canon's and HP's..blessings, Johnny
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Old Apr 10, 2003, 2:00 AM   #6
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I'm sorry I should'nt have said Epson Glossy Photo paper. This paper in my opinion is really a crappy paper in general for overall color match. But the premium Glossy Paper is a Really Good paper also not to mention it is significantly cheaper than the pro paper. literally a dime a page vs the cannon at .47 a page for 4x6 printing. The only drawback appears to be the paper has a lower archival rating of 15 years vs the cannon pro paper rating of 25. But with a price equivalent to 1/4 of the cannon pro paper its actually a deal you can pick up a 50 pack for 10 bucks on buy.com. I think you could possibly get a sample sheet from an epson rep at one of your local major computer super stores. IE Fry's, Compusa, Best Buy.

Yes even your cheap inks should last up to 25 years. Although take this to mean that if you leave it in the back window of your car about 1 year to 1 and a half years before significant fading will be noticeable.

I've seen many cannon users use this premium glossy paper and they are all very satisfied with it.
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Old Apr 10, 2003, 4:55 PM   #7
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Just an edit to the above post. The ink actually has a little to do with the archival abilities of the print in such cases where the forumulation is changed. Most manufactures inject ink into thier printers in a clean room and they also have a specific color tone when they make it. So if the ink that you are using is not of a good quality you may experience things like clogged printheads and different color printing. So be careful were you buy your cheap ink. Most universal inks will clog your printhead and thier colors will be off.

So be wary of where you buy your ink.
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