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Old May 9, 2006, 10:29 PM   #1
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Hello all -

Well, I've just made a mistake. I was printing a run of flyers on my IP5000, and somehow the yellow cart ran out without my noticing it (I think I did get some earlier warning messages, but I didn't read them closely and just assumed they were for my pigment black cart, which I knew was running out and eventually replaced). Anyway, I ended up printing about 25 pages with the empty yellow cart before I realized what had happened. The only color elements on the flyer are three photos that are a total of about 5 square inches. Is there a chance I've damaged my printhead, and if so what would be the symptoms of that damage? (I obviously don't want to use my printer again until I can put in a replacement yellow cart.)

Thanks!

Zack
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Old May 11, 2006, 5:22 PM   #2
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To Zack23,

Its a binary question--you either damaged the electronics or you did not. It will show up in a nozzle check if you did.--and you are right--don't print without a new yellow installed.

But I am guessing you did not---a cartridge will print quite a while after the ink low warning. If the 5 square inch photo did not consume much yellow, you probaly just had a situation where the the last few prints were just starting to to starve the printhead of yellow---a glance at the last photos vs. the first would give a clue if they appear radically different.
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Old May 12, 2006, 5:14 PM   #3
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Unfortunately, it wasn't just 5 pages, it was 25 pages (although only about 5 sq inches on each page had color photos). And the yellow ink ran out all at once - you can see it disappear in the middle of one page, and all the subsequent pages look identical (ie, no yellow at all).

However, I finally go my new ink from Hobbicolors, refilled my cart, and ran some prints. Everything seems to be fine. The color seems a touch off, but I suspect this is because I refilled carts which previously had Canon OEM ink in them, while continuing to use a dye black cart which has Formulabs ink in it. I'll wait until I can switch in fresh carts filled with Hobbicolor ink to do any precise comparisons.

Zack
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Old May 12, 2006, 8:49 PM   #4
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To Zack23,

I still say only a nozzle check will give you a precise diagnostic of printhead damage---a slightly changed color balance could be due to a pile of factors.

But I tend to be optimistic from what you say---I very much doubt your printhead is damaged. And hobbicolors ink is highly rated---I trust it---or better as I am using it myself.
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Old May 16, 2006, 10:34 AM   #5
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don't worry about it. I have done the same thing and my printer (IP4000) is working fine. I printedat least3-4 8x10 photo in batch modeafter the yellow ran out, and I have done that several times. The print head is still working fine. I guess the print head should be designed to withstand a few rounds dry printing.
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Old May 17, 2006, 9:50 AM   #6
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The printhead indeed seems to be fine - both prints and nozzle check tests show no problems.

However, I'm still having having an issue with a color shift compared to OEM ink. The Hobbicolors ink is significantly more yellow (whereas, compared to OEM ink, the Forumulabs ink I had previously tried was lacking in magenta and desaturated). I originally thought that this might be the result of refilling previously used carts, but since the carts had previously held OEM ink (the carts used with Formulabs ink I kept serperate and didn't refill), it's hard to see how this could cause the Hobbicolor ink to shift AWAY from the OEM colors. One other possibility is that I'm still using the BCi-6 black (dye) ink from Forumlabs...

Zack
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Old May 17, 2006, 10:56 AM   #7
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To Zack23,

First, great to hear your printhead is not damaged.

But you are not the first to raise hobbicolors color balance issues--and for that matter other complain about formulalabs and other inks. But I do point out some of these issues are better covered in the nifty stuff forums.

1. In the genral issue section is a post by Neil Slade---titled 11 ink shootout--where comparison scans of various inks are listed---formulalabs is among the tested inks--sadly hobbicolors is not.

2. An ink may preform very well with one brand photopaper and show significant color shifts with another brand.---so keep that in mind---as a refiller you just want to find a combination of ink and paper that works well for you--and keep in mind if your vendor changes suppliers or paper manufactering techniques it can cause a combination that worked in the past to do do worse oin the next order.

3. Any even slightly badly feeding cartridges--or even slightly clogged nozzles--can cause big color shifts.

4. You can get custom color profiles for ink and photpapers --or play with the Canon softwar settings.

5. In terms of your specific printer--the ip5000---I might pass along some problem reports---not as gospel truth but as some posters opinions (a) Many previous users of MIS ink report it does not do as well in 1 pico liter nozzles. (b) There seems to be no complaints about hobbicolors BCI-6 colors in terms of clogging---but some warnings against using ANY third party pigmented ink in the BCI-3ebk---in the ip4000 or ip5000--so you may wish to keep using the formulalabs dye based black.-----and for that matter I am considering switching to a dye based black in my wife's ip4000--which just came up with a clog---just one clean cycle took care of it---but its the first problem to date I have ever had. And I had been running a dye based BCI-3ebk third party ink before.

6. On the nifty stuff forums is a method to purge a cartridge of old ink---which also extend the life of the cartridge---the original poster is grandad35---you might give that a read. I like the hobbicolor cartridges with the screw seal. But said virgin cartridges can be used with any ink.--I have been extremely pleased with the hobbicolors color match---but eyes and preferences differ---many like some third party inks--not because of a near perfect OEM match but because of the slight differences produce colors they like better.

Won't claim to have solved any problems but if this post gives you some ideas it won't have been a total waste.
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Old May 17, 2006, 1:59 PM   #8
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Osage wrote:
Quote:
5. In terms of your specific printer--the ip5000---I might pass along some problem reports---not as gospel truth but as some posters opinions (a) Many previous users of MIS ink report it does not do as well in 1 pico liter nozzles. (b) There seems to be no complaints about hobbicolors BCI-6 colors in terms of clogging---but some warnings against using ANY third party pigmented ink in the BCI-3ebk---in the ip4000 or ip5000--so you may wish to keep using the formulalabs dye based black.-----and for that matter I am considering switching to a dye based black in my wife's ip4000--which just came up with a clog---just one clean cycle took care of it---but its the first problem to date I have ever had. And I had been running a dye based BCI-3ebk third party ink before.
I had wondered about this myself because two of my iP4000 printheads have clogged with the black ink from MIS (no idea if the same issue is true with the stuff from Gemini Colours as I don't have a comparison code). I'll keep you posted on developments with my remaining two iP4000 printheads and the iP4200's I have running with the two inks..

I'd probably go with your suggested usage of the dyebase PK ink though given what I've seen in the printheads of the 2 clogged units.
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Old May 18, 2006, 6:40 AM   #9
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Osage, thank you for your helpful response!

>>>>>There seems to be no complaints about hobbicolors BCI-6 colors in terms of clogging---but some warnings against using ANY third party pigmented ink in the BCI-3ebk---in the ip4000 or ip5000--so you may wish to keep using the formulalabs dye based black.-----and for that matter I am considering switching to a dye based black in my wife's ip4000--which just came up with a clog---just one clean cycle took care of it---but its the first problem to date I have ever had.<<<<<<

Are you suggesting using dye-Black ink in the BCI-3Ebk cartridge??! I've always heard that the dye and pigment based blacks are NOT interchangeable, and that one CANNOT use dye-Black in in the BCI-3ebk cartridge. Just to be clear, I'm still using the Forumlabs dye-Black ink in the BCI-6BK black cart, but I've refilled the BCI-3Ebk cartridge with Hobbicolors pigment black. Not that this should have any effect, one way or the other, on photo printing.

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Old May 18, 2006, 4:23 PM   #10
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To Zack23,

Just to be very clear and stay factual.

1. The ink Canon uses in the BCI-3ebk OEM cartridge is pigment based. Which seems to cause no clogging problems.

2. Some refill ink uses a non pigmented dye based ink for the BCI-3ebk--and for that matter some
some prefilled third party cartridges do the same.

3. This does not apply to the BCI-6bk where the ink better be dye based.

4. The hobbicolors ink intended for the BCI-3ebk is indeed pigment based.

5. Some hobbicolors--and other refillers do prefer to use a dye based ink in the BCI-3ebk--because they have had clogging probems using a variety of third party inks and prefilled cartridges that are pigment based--and these reports seem to identify the ip4000 and ip5000 printers as the problem models.

6. You are probably right--a dye and pigment based BCI-3ebk ink should not be mixed---such as adding a pigment based ink to a depleted dye based cartridge--or vice versa.

7. My wife's printer just came up with a clog after being filled with a virgin hobbicolor cartridge filled with hobbicolors ink---she has used it very intermittenly the past few months so I can't say its the ink or just a printer abuse problem--but only the text black clogged---and I also have another exactly similar BCI-3ebk hobbicolors cartridge in my MP730 and have experienced no problems. For now I will just make sure she prints at least once a week---but if it clogs again in the black text cartridge--its back to a dye based ink for sure.
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