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Old Jul 22, 2006, 11:43 AM   #11
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Yeah, right now I have a friends HDD that is his only source for 3 years of family photos, of course it is failed. I'm just about through the fixes that I can attempt with very little chance that my last 2 or 3 options will yield any results (Seagate 'click of death'). It's probably going to have to go in for a more forensic recovery which will cost him more than 10 HDD's would have. It's quite a wakeup call to me about my own laziness on important pictures.

Although HDD's are super easy and cheap, I don't trust them as my only backup. This is why I also use DVD's every few weeks or so and I put those into a fire safe. I pitch the old disks and replace them with the new ones every time I back up fresh. That way I know the backup isn't too old. I've considered off site storage but haven't really checked into it.

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Old Jul 22, 2006, 2:19 PM   #12
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Gah! Oh I feel so sorry when I hear someone 'lost' everything. And the idea of losing pictures of something other than flowers and birds...just devastating. They're lucky to have a friend like you who will try the recovery. The bottom line is failures do happen...more often than people anticipate.

Patience is a virtue. :arrow: Just not one I have. :-)

Corollary, I'm a slob.

Impatient + Slob = Very wasteful. Guess I'll just move itperiodically...

As I have a prettygood dsl, I'm thinking of using the alternate hd as back-up 1 and a 'site' asback-up 2.

Gonna check the board for upload suggestions/pricing. Maybe just upgrade the website for storage.

Good luck!


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Old Jul 22, 2006, 6:03 PM   #13
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I have been using my laptop hard drive plus an external usb drive as a backup. Of course the laptop is full so now a bunch of stuff is not in two places, so I'm buying a DVD burner. Plan is to have pics on external drive and dvd (perhaps kept in my desk drawer at work). I'm also considering adding a simple raid array to my desktop, it would be the cheapest and easiest form of reliable mass storage.
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 9:09 AM   #14
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One of the things about a HDD that bothers me about backup is virus. It's not impossible that your HDD's could be erased by some malicious 14 year old and the data is lost forever. A DVD backup is impervious to this type of damage, though has size limitations and perhaps a limited lifespan.Off site has a small issue with file size- I'm not sure how long it takes to upload 50gb of pics or what the cost of that kind of off site storage would be. I guess I should check into it but since my current system has been working I'm complacent. I suppose it's all about your personal priorities vs. the shortcomings of any backup system. I try to mix the risk to any type of threat so that no single event can destroy all my data.

I think I'm going to back up today, right now I've got 14gb of shots in the 'my pictures' folder. I really should prune them, there have to be a ton that the kids have shot or are well beyond their useful life but the task is daunting. It's only 2 DVD-DL disks vs. 3 hours of sorting.....(but then should "I wait till it's 5 hours?) We'll see how that goes.

On my friends HDD, I am now down to the last option- finding exactly the same HDD (including revision #) on Ebay and swapping out the controller. I've been able to read and save some data (mostly .doc files) but not any .jpg files. If I can get a controller to spool it up once, I'll ghost the HDD and try recovering the datafrom a functioning disk. It's probably a less than 1% chance at this point but it's something to do. The disappointing part is that it clicked for some time before failing- he didn't know it was 'a bad thing'. He's one of the very few that had an opportunity to save his stuff and didn't. My only true HDD failure was without notice and was a head crash on a Maxtor bigfoot drive. (1 platter) Everything was irreversibly lost due to physical damage. I still don't buy Maxtor drives today, lol. It's not really that I think Maxtor drives are bad, but that the experience was so bad that I'm not taking any more chances with them. I don't really know that the Seagate drives I now buy are any more dependable but none have failed me.

RAID is definately the easiest way to get a backup, but depending on how often it's updated it's also prey to the viral threat. Overall though, it's a great idea because IMO the vast majority of HDD failures are mechanical (as opposed to electronic or virus). It's got you covered 95% of the time there's a failure and once it's set up it's zero maintenance.

On USB flash drives, the only issue I have is storage size. I can't really backup to a 512mb or even a 4gb flash drive. A 200 gb HDD can cost less than a 4gb flash media, so it's not as affordable as a HDD
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 10:00 AM   #15
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what is a HDD
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Old Jul 23, 2006, 2:14 PM   #16
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dafiryde wrote:
what is a HDD
Hard Disk Drive
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 3:44 PM   #17
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if you go to a RAID array make certain each array has an indepentant and UPS protected power supply

else: one bad surge and/or lightening hit wipes out both arrays

the penultimate solution:

2 HDD on different UPSpower supplies and breakers hooked up with one RAID driver using firewire, then back up data to archival grade gold CD

ps. don't lose that box of old unprintable negatives :blah:

Last edited by bernabeu; Jun 27, 2015 at 4:24 PM.
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 5:30 PM   #18
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Do what I did for years.

Netware 3.12 with all patches, including those for long filename support, Y2K patches, and support for TCP/IP. Netware 3.x is so fast to disk (thanks to split reads and writes between drives if you're mirrored), it makes any version of Windows look like a "dog" in comparison. If you're running mirrored drives, it's smart enough to split the requests between more than one disk drive for reads. Neat stuff.

Basically, it's No contest. Nothing Microsoft has ever sold even comes close to matching it's performance "on and off the wire". Netware 3.x is *very* efficient.

But, it's probably pretty hard to find the right patches to make it all work anymore. I've got muliple backups of this system, just in case of a failure (floppy disks, tape backups, spare drives, etc.). lol

Mirrored and duplexed external SCSI drives. If one fails, it keeps on going. replace an external drive periodically and let the OS remirror it. Novell also had 3.11 SFT3 for a while (mirrored servers). But, I prefer 3.11 or 3.12 with mirrored or duplexed drives (better performance).

Using this solution (Netware 3.1x with mirrord drives, you've always got a drive with your data on it.

I've got a friend of mine that's still running Netware 3.x on the back end. We tried Windows 2000, Windows NT (3.51, 4.0), and Windows XP along the way. But, they were so darn slow (even on much faster hardware), we went back to Netware instead.

He's still running his business that way to this day (and we've using a Netware 3.x this solution since around 1989).

It's too bad Novell shifted it's focus elsewhere, this Operating System was so good for file sharing.

Another nice feature it's got is flagging files transactional (TTS).

I can remember demonstrating multiple workstations writing to disk (to databases with millions of records), and deliberately killing power. The system automatically backs out any incompleted writes for files flagged as TTS (Transaction Tracking System). If it's setup correctly, it's the best Operating System ever made for keeping good copies of data. I ran hundreds of concurrent users 24/7 for years using Netware. We couldn't afford data loss or failures. :-)

On the downside, you can expect problems for any files over around 2GB. That did become a problem from time to time with some larger btrieve files.

Little known fact:

Novell Btrieve 6.0 (since sold to another vendor) will support up to 64,000 concurrent connections to the databases, even if your version of Netware is only for 250 users. I've succesfully ran more than 400 concurrent users to a single 386 (yes, intel 80386 CPU) server in the past using a little known technique with Brequest.exe as the client interface.
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Old Jul 24, 2006, 7:06 PM   #19
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thanks guys but started saving photos on cd cause my pics look better on the screen than on paper, and price wise . but i guess i will have to go back to printing
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Old Jul 27, 2006, 9:18 PM   #20
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Another option you may want to consider is using online storage as a kind of redundant storage in conjunction with your CD archiving.

I know some people use FLICKR.. Personally, I use FOTKI.COM If i remember correctlyit costs me something like 60 dollars a yearfor unlimited storage.There is another site that is prettygood but I cant remember it. Think of it as offsite storage in case you ever lose your CD/DVDs.

Also, Thankfully the 5D can take pictures in both RAW and JPEG simulaneously, I make it a point to make sure I have the RAW images backed up (on DVDs) and the JPEGS online.

BTW, Remember that JPEGs degrade over time from use.

Just my 2 cents:G

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