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Old Dec 18, 2011, 9:55 AM   #1
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Default Proper Camera Settings?

Attached are 3 shots from a recent high school soccer game. My Canon body and Canon 70-200mm f2.8 lens were both back at Canon for check/repair so I shot with my 40D and 85mm f1.8 prime lens. All shots were taken in Raw mode using manual aperture and shutter speed (f1.8 and 1/400 sec) and ISO 3200. In photos 4354 and 4358 I was on the sideline about 15 ft from the players in the photo. In photo 4319 in was standing just behind the end-line about 20-25 ft from the players in the photo. All shots were as they came out of the camera with no post processing except for sizing to met the size requirement of the forum. Except for ISO Expansion, all other Custom functions are off. Forget that framing could have been better if the play was a bit closer to me, is there something apparent from these photos that indicates some camera setting is incorrect or inappropriate?
Thanks
Jerry
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 10:02 AM   #2
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Jerry - first blush is your estimation on distance is off. First and third photo are further than 25 feet away. 2nd shot is close to that. So, the distance will cause issue with sharpness. That's the biggest issue. It's always arguable as to what the best exposure settings are. So we can discuss that. But if you're concerned about the lack of sharpness it's because the subjects are too far away for the 85mm lens.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 10:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachjerry View Post
...except for sizing to met the size requirement of the forum.
As an FYI, they didn't meet the size requirements.

I can tell from looking at the EXIF that they were resized and recompressed by the gd-jpeg libraries used by our forums software (which will usually make images look a bit softer, since they're not using the best algorithms around).

Either the file size was too large (the maximum allowed is 253.9KB for JPEG Images), or the dimensions were too large (the maximum allowed is 1024 pixels on the longest side).

So, if you don't want the images being modified by our forums software, it's a good idea to make sure both the file size and dimensions are not too large. As long as the file size is not more than 253.9KB, and the longest side is not longer than 1024 pixels, then the forums software will not modify images you attach.

Chances are, you're using a JPEG quality setting that's too high (resulting in a larger file size than is allowed) if you downsized them so that the dimensions are within limits.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 10:55 AM   #4
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I believe you are probably right about my distance estimates...especially re the first shot. I should have let the play come to me a bit more and that is something (patience) that I will need to work on especially with a medium length telephoto like the 85mm.

Something that puzzles me about photos 2 and 3 is that I don't believe I moved between these two shots and the players were essentially in a scrum at about the same spot on the field for both shots which were taken about a second or two apart. Although it certainly appears from the size of the players in the two shots that the distance between them and the camera did change.

Another odd thing is the side-line ref at the edge of the frame in photo 2 seems to be well behind the players but is still somewhat in focus...I would have expected him to be more out of focus than appears considering the DOF for these conditions...that may be evidence that the players (which is were the focus point was) were in fact further away from me.
Thanks for your insight.
Jerry
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 12:03 PM   #5
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JimC
I resized them to be 1024 max and used a lower quality jpeg file size but could not see what the file size was after minimizing it. How can I see the file size of the image I'm sending?
Jerry
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 12:05 PM   #6
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I just checked the file size of one of the images and it was 207 KB. So I'm not sure what is going on. Sorry
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 12:50 PM   #7
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Are you sure the dimensions were no larger than 1024 pixels on the longest side and that you were looking at the downsized versus original version of it?

If you "right click" on an image using Windows Explorer (Start Menu, Computer Icon, then browse folders with images) and select "Properties" after you right click on one, you'll see a "Details" tab that will show you both File Size and Dimensions in the File Section on that tab.

Note that you can also see the same thing after you use the Paper Clip icon here (Management Attachments feature) when you are browsing for an image to upload. Just "right click" on an image in a folder you're browsing on your drive, select Properties, then look at the Details Tab to see that information (both file size and dimensions).
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 1:19 PM   #8
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Another way to approach it is to use a "Mouse Over" when browsing folders. For example, see this screen capture where I used the Paperclip icon and clicked on the Browse button to see images on my hard drive. When I hold the mouse over an image, Windows (at least Win 7) gives you file size and dimensions.

If you want even more info, right click on one, then select Properties, then click on the details tab. But, you can see basic file size and dimensions info just by using a mouse over (moving your cursor over an image file in a folder you're browsing and waiting for info to appear about it).

But, most of the time, if an image downsized so that it's 1024 pixels or smaller on it's longest side and you use a jpeg quality setting of around 80% (or 8, depending on the type of scale it uses) when you save the downsized image, you'll be within the max file size allowed. In the case of the below screen capture using one of the sample pictures that came with Win 7, it would be too large, since the mouse over is showing a size of 858KB, so I could expect that the forums would resize and recompress it if I tried to upload that one.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 1:33 PM   #9
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Also note that if you are just "hot linking" to images on a web site somewhere else, versus uploading them to the forums servers, then the file sizes are not enforced.

For example, you could use one of the popular photo sharing services that allows hot linking. Another great way to do it where you get 2GB of space for free is to use http;//www.dropbox.com

Basically, you install their software on all of your PCs (or only 1 if you don't want to sync files between them) and you'll have a dropbox folder added under your file manager (Windows Explorer, OS X Finder, etc.).

Then, all you have to do is copy and paste files into subfolders under dropbox, and it will automatically copy them to the dropbox file servers in the background, and down to the dropbox folders on any other PCs you have installed with the same account that you want to keep in sync (and you can even shut down and it will restart where it left off later when you're connected again).

That lets you sync any desired files by putting them iinto your dropbox folders, so that the same files and folders show up on more than one machine, in addition to being stored in your dropbox folders on their servers. It's cross platform with software for Windows, Linux, and OS X, and even some mobile phones now (with mobile versions available for iPad, iPod and Android). It also works behind routers and firewalls without needing to enable port forwarding like you would need to do with your own ftp server. They also have a web based interface you can use to upload and download files to/from your folders without using their software.

I have it installed on a couple of my PCs now.

You can also get a "Public URL" for items in your dropbox public (versus private) folders, so that you can give links to others to download files without them needing to install any software (they'd just click on the link and use their internet browser to download files instead). All it takes to do that is right click on a file, use the dropbox choice you'll see in your file manager, and select "Get Public URL". Then paste that public link into a forum post, e-mail, or PM so that anyone clicking on it can download the file. So, even if you don't use any other features, it's useful for giving others links to photos you want them to see.

Get dropbox here:

http://www.dropbox.com

That technique works fine for posting images in forums, too. Just copy an image you want to post to your dropbox public folder, right click on it, and select the dropbox choice to get a public url. Then, just use that link in a forum post with [img] in front of the link, and [/img] after the link and the image will show up in a post.

But, we'd still prefer that the sizes be kept somewhat manageable, even though we don't try to modify images that are located on an external web site.

Keep in mind that many users don't have higher resolution displays (the most common display size is still 1024 x 768 pixels if you look at most statistics keeping track of that kind of thing).

http://gs.statcounter.com/#resolutio...-201012-201111

You also have members browsing forums with netbooks and even smart phones. So, even an image that's 1024 pixels on it's longest side can make it difficult for some members to see the entire image without scrolling, so even smaller is better for many members trying to view images in posts.

If file sizes are too large, that can also cause problems for members, as we still have a number of members that don't have high speed internet access (with a number of them still using dialup access). Also, some wireless data plans are not unlimited and have bandwidth usage restrictions (i.e., based on how much data is downloaded in kilobytes). So, larger image file sizes increase member costs in those cases (using more of the bandwidth on the data plan they have), and can cause longer page load times with large image sizes (especially if more than one image is on a page).

Not too long ago, we used to recommend images be no larger than 640 x 480 pixels. Here's an old post on the subject (the instructions are no longer valid, since we've changed forums software since then).

How to post your photos

Right now, we have the forums set for a maximum size of 1024 pixels on the longest side of an image, with a max file size of 253.9KB. But, keep in mind that that's still considered to be large when users don't have high speed internet access, or have a usage based data plan. Ditto for trying to view a larger image on a smaller screen (netbooks, smart phones, etc.) without needing to scroll to see all of it. ;-)
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 1:41 PM   #10
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Thanks, I have Mac and used their equivalent to check size and pixel dimension.

I rechecked the three images to make sure that each is less than 240kb (238, 233 and 233) and each is 1024 on the longest side.
I have attached these rechecked images to see if you can confirm that they meet forum requirements. Thanks JimC
Jerry
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