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Old Aug 18, 2009, 9:57 AM   #1
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Default SX10, SX1 or Sony HX10

edit: (Sorry for the nomenclature problem. HX10 should be HX1)

Here is my delima. Have narrowed my choice of a super zooms to SX10, HX1 or SX1.

Amateur hour basically. I have owned a Cannon S30 for years, takes great pictures to me but it's click and wait. Hard for me to get shots of the horses. I also am a Realtor and the S30 isn't wide angle enough so it looks like Super Zooms might solve my problems. Zoom out to the horses, decent frame rate compared to old S30 and wide angle. Don't want to spend the big bucks for DSLR or carry all the stuff.

SX10 is very appealing due to costs, especially with recent drops. Only issue is frame rate is slow and may not be able to find one soon since discontinued.

SX1 is of course better frame rate and has a couple of other nice features like the HDMI & remote but is way more expensive. (does anyone know what the guy was using with the squirrel picture on the Internet ?)

HX1 has a lot that I like, especially the 10fps burst (but hate the write delay), Easy menus, same zoom, panoramic, yada, yada, priced much lower than SX1 but from what I hear the picture quality isn't what it could be.

So I guess the first real question is will I even notice the HX1 quality issue coming from a 3MP Canon S30 or has technology changed so much I will think it's great?

I would buy the SX10 right now but I am afraid I will be disappointed with the slow speed since that is a big issue for me. I think the SX1 would be the one but the price is too high compared to the HX10. Wondering if the
SX1 might drop to compete since the SX10 is going away.

Any comments or words of wisdom appreciated. Have always liked my old Canon but Iam having hard time justifying the price of SX1 over HX1 or SX10 speed.

Last edited by Joe Sellers; Aug 18, 2009 at 12:48 PM.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 11:37 AM   #2
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Default Higher Zoom Cameras

Joe Sellers-

Welcome to the Forum. The Sony HX-1 was Sony's first attempt at producing a CMOS imager camera. It had multiple unique features, such as sweep panoramas. The twilight and anti shake modes where 6 photos are taken quickly and then merged together to produce a single higher quality photo. If you read the professional reviews, image quality was less than had been hoped for by most people. Sony then took what they had learned with the HX-1 and are now in the process of introducing two more cameras that will utilize the CMOS imager, the WX-1 and the TX-1. Those cameras are scheduled to go on sale in September 2009.

From the publicity already available on the introduction of those two newer CMOS imager based cameras, we already know that they will offer the same sweep panorama, anti blur, and twilight features, but a new feature has been added. the WX-1 for sure, and perhaps, the TX-1 as well will feature high ISO capabilities. The Sony WX-1 will feature as well a 24mm very wide angle lens and 5X optical zoom. The very wide angle lens might be useful for you as a realator. At introduction, the WX-1 will be priced at $(US) 349.99. The WX-1 publicity shows a photo taken by the light of a campfire. So it would appear that Sony has been busy advancing the features of that CMOS imager. Interestingly enough, there has been substantially less publicity about the TX-1.

The squirrel photos that you saw posted in this Forum were taken by James with a Panasonic FZ-28 camera.The FZ-28, another super zoom camera, has also been discontinued by Panasonic and is now very difficult to find. The FZ-28's replacement will be called the FZ-35 here in the USA, and the FZ-38 in Europe and other markets. The FZ-35/FZ-38 is scheduled to be on dealer shelves in September 2009.

That then leaves Canon. They introduced the SX-1 in Europe and Asia, but not in the United States. Like Sony's HX-1 camera, Canon's SX-1 camera was priced quite high. Higher, at $(US) 599.00, that the Sony HX-1, which when initially introduced sold for $499.99. As you can see, the camera prices for the HX-1 and SX-1, at their introduction point were equal to consumer level DSLR camera prices.

Perhaps it was a marketing test to see if the super zoom camera prices could indeed overlap the consumer level DSLR prices and survive. However, since they were introduced the Sony HX-1's price has fallen to as low as $(US) 419.00 and the Canon SX-1 price has fallen to as low as $(US)534.00.

Canon's SX-1 was also a CMOS based imager camera. It has not sold very well, just like Sony's HX-1, and the SX-1 does not have most of the the unique features of Sony's HX-1 camera. Canon's introduction of the SX-1 was hampered by the fact they had already introduced the SX-10 camera. When the professional reviews were completed on Canon's SX-1 and SX-10 cameras, it was determined that the SX-10 had an image quality that was a bit better than the SX-1. So there were two cameras with roughly the same features that were almost $(US) 200.00 apart in price.

So you can most probably fairly say that the two Canon cameras effectively competed with each other. There has also been no media mention of successor cameras for the Canon SX-1, nor for the Sony HX-1. Canon, Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic have traditionally introduced new digicam model cameras in September of each year.

Therefore, the super zoom/digicam market is currently in something of a state of flux, awaiting the introduction of new cameras by Canon, Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic.

As to whether you would notice the difference in image quality of the Sony HX-1 camera, I have attached a Sony HX-1 photo that I shot for you. One important question for all folks thinking about super zoom cameras is how much zoom do you really need? Compact (smaller) cameras, such as the Sony H-20, the Panasonic ZS1/ZS3, and the Fuji F-70 cameras will have wide angle lenses (25mm on the ZS1 and ZS3 cameras) and either 10X or 12X of optical zoom. They seem to be in a marketing niche of their own. Super zoom cameras like Sony's H-50 (now discontinued) and HX-1, Canon's SX-1 and SX-10 cameras with 20X optical zoom, Kodak's Z-1012 (now discontinued) with 12X optical zoom, Panasonics's FZ-18 (discontinued over a year ago) and FZ-28 cameras with 18X optical zoom and Casio's super zoom models seem to fit in a mid level marketing niche.

Nikon's P-90, Pentax's X-70, Kodak Z-980, and the Olympus SP-590 all with 24X or more of optical zoom all seem to reside in the top level marketing niche of digicams. We have never seen such a wide variety and offering of cameras with lots of zoom before.

So most probably in the next 30 days or so, we will know more about how the market for higher zoom cameras will evolve.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 1:11 PM   #3
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Thanks Sarah, really appreciate your time for the detailed reply & the HX1 picture.

While the WX and TX sound interesting I really want the long zoom to capture my horse shots. The real estate shots may be in lower light but the majority of my other pictures will be outside in half way decent light.

I am holding back to see what comes of the Canon S1/S10 situation. I read the reviews about the S10 actually being better pictures but decided the 4fps meant more to me.

It's getting real hard to lay your hands on a camera these days. I went in a Wolf Camera store and they didn't have the SX1/SX10 or HX1. The only place I found a SX10 and the HX1 was Fry's and had a salesman down my neck. I was impressed with the HX1 for ease of use, disappointed in the delay after a burst and the SX10 seemed to be able to focus and zoom quicker.

Based on what you have told me I think I will hold off a little longer to see what is coming down the pike. My old Canon S30 has served me well but it's not up to what I need. This was a very lucky shot I got with it (click, wait, pray). Sorry for the quality but I had to zoom it digitally to bring it close enough to appreciate what the horse was doing. These are the type of pictures I am interesting in.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 1:20 PM   #4
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Default Canon SX-10

Joe Sellers-

Yes, I agree it is probably time to wait and see what happens. Your horse shots are impressive and would get even better with added zoom.

The SX-10 from www.amazon.com ($306.34) arrived within the hour. Initial shots right out of the camera look to be quite good, with excellent Canon color. If you want to see a 100% crop just let me know.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 2:50 PM   #5
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Default Canon SX-10 Photo Sample

Joe Sellers

Here is a rather similar photo, to the one I already posted, taken this morning with the Canon SX-10.
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 8:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtclimber View Post
Joe Sellers

Here is a rather similar photo, to the one I already posted, taken this morning with the Canon SX-10.
You must have read my mind because I have been looking for some samples of the same subject taken with both cameras and just on the auto setting vs any custom set-ups.

Nine times out of ten I will see the horses in the field doing something besides eating & don't have my camera handy. In these situations I just run for it, it's on auto and I try to zoom in so they don't notice me.
Both pictures you provided are soooo much clearer and sharper than what I am used to. It's starting to look like picture quality for my use isn't going to be an issue. Really liked the HX1 shot but the SX10 ain't bad either! These two were with old S30 again, can only imagine what they could have looked like. Once again, what is good to me probably will be ugly to others. I just try to do better than my wife who has a habit of cutting off heads !
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 9:03 PM   #7
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Default Olympus SP-560 Photo Sample

Joe Sellers-

Here is another sample photo that is very similar to the one above of my husband. It is also of my husband, but taken this evening without flash using the Olympus SP-560 camera.

Again thanks for the wonderful horse photos. I will make an attempt to post from different cameras so you have a better selection to choose from. Also please keep in mind that I am always most happy to post 100% crops if you want to look at fine detail in any of these photos.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 18, 2009, 9:40 PM   #8
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Sarah,

Other than the fact that the OP is considering an SX-10, the pictures you've posted (a seagull sitting on a fence and your husband sucking oxygen) have absolutely nothing to do with the OP's stated needs - action pictures of horses and wide angle real estate photographs. Granted, they were taken with an SX-10, but how about some pictures of galloping horses at maximum zoom and some wide angle real estate shots taken with the SX-10...or the HX-1 or SX-1?

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Old Aug 18, 2009, 10:12 PM   #9
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Default Sony H-50 Photo Sample

Rinnie-

If you read carefully, the OP stated that he was looking for similar photos taken with different super zoom cameras. Yes, I agree his stated ultimate objective for his use of a super zoom that he decides upon is for taking horse photos and photos for his real estate occupation.

Therefore, I duplicated the seagull shot of the Sony HX-1 with another taken today with the Canon SX-10. I gave the OP a photo of my husband taken with the Canon SX-10 and then added another taken with the Olympus SP-560, and the Sony H-50.

I have attached the Sony H-50 photo sample.

Sorry, we don't have a herd of horse available for photos on the Oregon Coast right now.

Sarah Joyce
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Old Aug 19, 2009, 8:07 AM   #10
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I am new to this forum so maybe I don't know how things are done here.
I just want to say that I sincerely appreciate Sarah's response and her sample photos regardless of the subject for comparison.

I think the one particular comment that I won't repeat was pretty low rent. I take pictures of subjects I love and care about deeply. It is apparent that Sarah does the same & I appreciate the time she takes to post.

I have looked through other sections of this forum and always find Sarah offering help, advise and yes opinions. I have also seen a couple of bashes and I just find it strange. I don't agree with everyone's opinion but I don't intend to beat up on someone who isn't a sports shot expert or may offer a still vs an action shot. I learn from everyone & can draw my own conclusions.

Yes I would love to see some horse shots & real estate shots. I would also like to see some of the 10fps action shots because I haven't seen any to determine how they stay or don't stay in focus. From what I saw in the Sony section the HX1 can take some wonderful shots. My concern coming from a P&S is it may take a number of bad ones to get the one good one vs the Canon.

What ever the case, I appreciate anyone's help and observations & see no need for hurtful comments. Sarah, all the best to you and your husband. If I could bring my horses to you I would and you and your husband would get the first ride.
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