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Old Apr 21, 2005, 7:22 PM   #1
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I've run a Fuji FinePix 2800 for quite a few years. I've noticed it on this camera, and every consumer camera I've borrowed (about 5 others)

You get crisp pictures when you're taking them with a flash (and flat pictures too) but when you turn the autoflash off, the iris always has to stay open too long and results in a blurred image.

What tiny, non-dSLR consumer camera has a better light-receptor so that I can take pix without flash and get a crisp image? Out of those cameras, which have the least amount of after-prefocus delay?

Megapixel size is unimportant to me, but compactness of the casing is more important.

Am I wishing for the moon here? Do any come close?
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Old Apr 21, 2005, 7:40 PM   #2
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It's not the iris that stays open too long - it is the shutter that stays open too long. This is needed when there isn't enough light to enable a high shutter speed, and you get blurry pictures because of camera movement.

Lack of light is not the camera's fault. It is doing whatever it can in order to make the exposure. If you don't have enough light, then you will need to do one of the following (assuming you don't want to use the flash): open the aperture, which forces the camera to use a higher shutter speed, and hope you get what you need, or increase the ISO, which will allow a higher shutter speed. This applies to any camera, regardless of how fast the lens is, or how high the ISO goes.

Unfortunately, your 2800 has an ISO that only goes up to 100, which is pretty low these days. Just about any recent digicam will have an ISO up to 400, some even higher. Therefore, you can get higher shutter speeds with just about any newer camera out there (and there are hundreds). Keep in mind though that all cameras have a limit as to how low the light can be before you will get into shutter speeds that are too low to handhold. Therefore, just changing cameras will not by any means guarantee that you will get successful pics in low light settings.


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Old Apr 21, 2005, 7:53 PM   #3
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How good a picture you get can depend on a few things. If the flash isn't powerful enough to light up the surrounding area, then the picture can be too dark.

If your camera has no manual mode, then it would be quite helpful to use a tripod and the self-timer combination. In that case, the camera will be rock solid steady when it takes the picture.

If you have control of both the iris and shutter speed, and you have a powerful enough flash, then you can just set the shutter speed to something low...like 1/30 second or slower (like 1/15), and the iris to something wide, and then take a flash photo (without tripod) to see what results you get. If things are too dark, then your flash is probably not powerful enough. With flash photos in dark enough conditions and 'slow' shutter speeds, the light exposure really depends on the duration of the flash...because even if the shutter is still open when the flash has finished firing (in dark enough conditions), not too much light gets in after the flash has finished. But if the conditions aren't dark enough when using slow shutter speeds....movement of the subject or the camera can lead to blurriness.

Some cameras let you adjust the light sensitivity... which is some ISO number. In low light, I sometimes set a high ISO value...like 200 or 400. This can be quite useful in low light, but bound to get noise. In that case, I'll use noise filtering software to remove the noise. But noise filtering has it's advantages and disadvantages depending on what the subject is. Eg...for people wearing jeans or something...noise filtering can make the jeans material look like space-age material after filtering...which is not a desirable effect.
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Old Apr 22, 2005, 12:21 AM   #4
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Have you looked at the Fuji E550? ISO 80-800. Not super small but small enough to put into a coat pocket. I to have Fuji 2800z and the E550 and love both.

I look at pictures I took with the 2800z and say to myself that's a great picture.

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Old Apr 22, 2005, 1:47 AM   #5
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Lots of good advice here Mr Beefy, and some that doesn't apply as your 2800 is fully automatic with no manual settings for shutter & aperture. But something's not right. With that camera you should get better results. But you dont tell us what lighting situations give blurry pics without flash.

Is it indoors or outdoors? Without flash, you cant expect most cameras to produce good sharp well exposed pics indoors, where the lighting is inadequate, photographically speaking.

I'd agree with Kev61. I had the 2800 before getting my present Fuji602. Love them both and look back at the great 2800 pics.

What to do? Maybe some camera like Kev mentions with higher ISO 800 would help, if you really need to take pics without flash in dull interiors.
Good Luck.
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Old Apr 22, 2005, 3:40 PM   #6
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Well, as stated by Kenney_Leong, with no flash, any automatic camera trys to compensate by increasing the ISO & slowing down the shutter speed as much as it can. (without the user knowing what the camera is doing)

This is where cameras differenciate themselves, by some having 400 or 800 ISO max (but noise problems), shutter speed from 1/1000th of a second to 30 seconds exposure or more, and of course the size of the lens itself plays a huge role in these conditions (bigger lens = more light getting to the CCD sensor faster).

I have a Sony W1, which is a semi-manual camera. One example I can give is I take all my Birthday pictures with no flash & longer shutter speeds. This gives a very nice glow to the candles & a warm picture. Whereas with a flash, the candles just seems to dissapear & the "ambiance" of the scene is gone. However I would recommend a tripod, or at least leaning on the wall to help steady your shot. (This is where you will get motion blurr, due to the long shutter speed).
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Old Apr 22, 2005, 3:59 PM   #7
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I write only to add that, although you may not notice it, there is a BIG difference between the amount of light available outdoors vs. the amount of light available indoors. Our eyes irises are so good that when sitting indoors with anything more than candlelight, whatever we're looking at looks fairly well exposed -- that is, a white piece of paper looks just about pure white, and when we're sitting outdoors, the same paper looks to be about the same brightness, give or take. Well, cameras just aren't that good. They need a LOT more light (except for some truly exceptional cameras and lenses) and they need it in a SHORT time (remember our eyes don't have a shutter... they're always receiving photons and transferring the data to our optic nerves!).

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Pure auto cameras are going to try to get good exposure (by increasing shutter speed) rather than let the picture go (too) black. You might be able to get a decent shutter speed value by shooting with "hot" (i.e. always on, non-flash) lights only if they're, oh, 500-1000 watts or so and not more than 10-15 feet away from the subject. THAT is bright, you might say... but that's at least how bright it is outside (These are estimates; pros, I appologize if my distances are completely off).

This is the reality with nearly all consumer-grade cameras. As mentioned before, you can boost ISO on many cameras, but on digicams you'll get so much grainy noise, it's hardly worth it. Welcome to the world of physics!

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