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Old Jun 16, 2005, 12:55 PM   #51
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So what is the R2400 supposed to do better
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Old Jun 21, 2005, 9:19 PM   #52
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:roll:Tony. The Canon is the way to go. Independant tests on the archivability or color light-fastness on the Canon is at least 40 years. This fall Canon will be releasing the BCI-7 series ink, yes, it's call the Chroma-life100. It has a minimum of 100 years for archivability. Current Pixma printers and the i9900 will simply call for a "firmware" update. Also, as you notied the R1800 uses the technology from the R800; this is already a year old model, meaning that the R1800 is already old, except for it being wide format an Epson's claim of 1.5 pico litre droplets. The Canon i9900 puts down consistant 2 pico litre droplets at 4800x2400 dpi (far higher overall than the Epson). Also, the Canon is a true 8 color printer (when Epson says 8 cartridges, they don't mean 8 colors). The machine has NO light Magenta or Light Cyan. Since it has two blacks, they are NOT made to fire at the same time; one being for matte paper and the other for glossy. Lastly, the glossy cartridge is NOT a color. Independant reviews of the i9900, especially those made by owners of the best digital SLR on the market (EOS Canon 20D), note that Canon's 8 color set of ink can produce the same color results(gamut)of positive film! That's an awesome statement! With it's 6144 print nozzles, it finishes the 20D professional print I did the other day in 4 minutes. The Canon ink cartridges allow for a higher yield than the Epsons. Remember the Epson's are "chipped", leaving ink still in the cartridge after the chip renders the cartridge dead. The Canon is an all around win, win sitation. Also, the Canon is $50 less than the R1800 and for everyone that MUST have a pigment based printer or printer on "longer" paper than the i9900 can do, Canon makes a wonderfull, professional arrary of commerical photo/graphic printers. They are now posted on the consumber web site, listed right under the last set of photo printers. Anyone having any questions, feel free to write me, cbolter2@excite.com.
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Old Jun 21, 2005, 9:19 PM   #53
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:roll: Tony, Also as a side note, the i9900 now gives you more control over the cleaning or purging of the seperate ink cartridges. You can now choose what colors need cleaning. Now we don't have to just purge the whole set and loose ink that doesn't need to be cleared out of the nozzles. I didn't note that compared to Epson, the Canon print head is removable and also "cleanable".I did this once with a procedure I found on the net and had cleaned the print head of an older Canon that I had not used in a long while. Interesting to note, the print head never actually goes bad, just some nozzles can get clogged. In another comparison to Epson, I read a technical study of Dye verses pigment ink, and it's a known fact that pigment based ink can more easily "clog" print nozzles than dye. Perhaps that's why Canon continues to use dye based inks, along with their wider gamut and vividness factor, and explains why their new Chroma-Life100 ink will still be a dye-based ink (along with some type of chrome particles added for the longer archivability). I noted that the Epson also had no Pictbridge port on it for camera direct printing. This is odd because Epson and HP know that this is a now universal print standard for direct printing. Card slots will soon be a thing of the past.
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Old Jun 21, 2005, 9:41 PM   #54
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I still don't know why anyone would still consider, these days, in purchasing an HP printer for photo printing. Anyone that keeps track of what is called "market share" in this country and world wide would be interested to know that HP has "lost" over 22% market share in the last 3 years. I myself am a Canon Fan, and since they make the world's finest and most popluar rated film and digital cameras, it's a no brainer that once someone takes a look at the prints that come out of the Canon's in the last 3-4 years, they're breath-taking! For one thing, HP doesn't even consider or tell consumers what drolet size their printers put down. If this isn't important, then why does Epson and Canon taut this like it's "do or die?" And for the Economics of the situation, articles have been popping out from every major news worthy source about "individual" ink tanks for ages now and this really does make a difference on cost of printing. Who would still spend upwards of $35 dollars on an HP ink cartridge to replace when ONE of the three colors in their TRI-color cartridge runs out?Even if someone believes that ALL three colors run out at the same time, you can compare the "quantity" of the amount of ink that'sin an HP cartridge and total that against just ONECanon cartridge. You get insome cases, almost three times as much. I printed out almost 2004"x6" prints just before I ran out of ONE color on my Canon8 color printer. Also, TALK to any artist about "colors", HP's TRI-color gray cartridge is infact NOT three seperate colors. Therefore, HP is lying about saying that it's a "nine" color printer. We're just waiting for someoneis sure tosue HP over this. It's just a matter of time, LOL.
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Old Jun 21, 2005, 9:50 PM   #55
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The person is correct. I know there's a concern about calibrating a monitor to the correct color of the images that come from a digital camera, but it's almost impossible and this is really due to the camera being TOO perfect. Many people do not realize this, but digital cameras records colors in the Adobe sRGB mode and even MORE accurately, (like the Canon digital camera's do), records in the YCC color space. Photo, inkjet printers (good ones), such as the Canon printers, READ the meta tags of the Exif recorded image data, that contains more information about the digital image, over and above the color data that can be displayed on a computer display. This is a limitation of every computer monitor. TRUST your digital camera and printer, and use the monitor as an approximation. Don't put too much money into those monitor calibratingequipment. They work okay, but will neverbe perfect. Be excited that what your digital camera saw when it recorded the picture is what will come out of theprinter. You can read about the YCC color space and it's conversion to printing out CMYK here:

http://bubblejet.canon.com.my/exif3.htm

Happy Reading and have fun printing!
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Old Jun 21, 2005, 10:02 PM   #56
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:blah:HEHE, you may want to now Cancel that order for Epson 2400 and wait on the NEW Canon Wide format this fall; just a couple of months away! How does ONE Pico Litre droplet sound and 9600x2400 DPI sound??? Couple that with 8 individual, true colors (no double blacks or gloss optimizers), and a NEW INK SET, called the Canon Chroma-Life100 BCI-7 Series Ink, rated with a minimum of 100 years Archivabilty! YES, all this is coming folks! The i9900 that has already been out for almost a year has been rated number one in PC Magainze, on wide-format photo printers, not to mention, being about to produce a color gamut compared to that of positive film. Don't forget, with over 6144 print nozzles, the printer finishes a dry, borderless 13"x19" printer in about 3.5 minutes. Canon already gives us, on the i9900 control over the purging over individual colors, not having to purge the whole set of ink. Canon cartridges are NOT "chipped either", no ink control chip. The light prismon the Canon allows for complete usage of the ink, ALL of it. I have had the Canon S9000, i9100, i9900 and will be getting the new one this fall. Also, it's rumored that the new one will have an "auto-duplexing unit" on it, like the current Canon Pixma printers have. This will "auto" duplex, meaning that the printer will do double sided printing on it's own. If you've never used a Canon or printed on one in the last 3-4 years, give it a try. You won't go back to anyone!
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 1:47 AM   #57
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To all that feel HP are the best printers ever, Please! I work for Best Buy and have done many of the test that are sent to stores and I have yet to see an HP do better than Canon or Epson in any category except most common to brake! I personally own the i9900 and the new R1800 and can't say which is better to buy. Though after reviewing the 8750 at work and through a friends results on the east coast we have both come to find that this printer like other HP's is not worth to be placed in the same field as Canon and Epson. I also visit many print shops and pro studios in my area and have yet tofind one that feels HP makes a good printer. My father even uses Canon printers at his offices because after all the Xerox,HP,Oki,Lexmark,and even Dell printers he has bought for his companies Canon has proven to be the most cost effective,best ppm, best customer service, andeven broke less then any other printer we have ever owned. As forhigh end photo and wide format printers Isee the same results at home, at work, and with the thousand+ Epson/Canon printers Ihave sold to many. Epson/Canon are made for true photo pros!I do not mean to put down HP, but feel Imust inform all of the issues I have seen. I have owned 5 HP printers and so far have thrown 3 in the trash and as for the 8450 and the 8150 I still have, well they have done great as paper weights but are no longer used for printing. I just became sick of the HP printers all ways feeding wrong and never getting great quality color or life out of HP prints. As for HP not being water resistant, well most don't realize something called humidity, which will fade and even smudge ink if it is in glass and tight against it. Why, else do you think many are pushing Dye-Sublimation printing so hard. I personally along with the marketing team in charge of Kodak, have taken a Kodak Dye-Sub 4" X 6" and had it place in a jar full of water, where it remained for 3 months, after taking it out, I wiped it dry with a paper towel, pulled out the same picture that we had taken the same day as the one in the jar though this one was in a protected frame and well sealed. You would not believe that after wiping the extra water off the one, you could not find any signs of smudge or fade compared to the one that remained in the frame. I hope that you all read this and maybe this will let you know why many of these people are against youand staying away from HP. Also mentioned in other forums, I have heard some say that Companies do not pay test benches to say things, well let me say that they will pay any site to say the world about their products and that is why I enjoy Best Buy because we make money off of what we sell (regardless of brand) where the test benches make money off of advertising and selling result outcomes to companies. Also know that when these test benches order printers to be tested, I would put money on the Company sending them a printer that they made sure was 150% to performance unlike the ones they sell to consumers which are probably at best 98% to performance. I am not saying there is proof of any of this butI have read many reports that are really bogus and from having a father in the manufacturing business, I know they send you the best of the best when they know you are going to test its performance.
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 12:37 PM   #58
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WOW!!

We have real Canon expert firing salvos at both Epson and HP...I absolutely love it!!

I recently purchased a Epson R1800 and own an HP 8450 and a Canon I950 BCI 6 INKS and aI9900 and a Canon i560...and some too old to talk about!!

The problem with Canon is "its coming" but sooooo it Christmas.....life is passing you buy.... but Canon will love to scare you to waiting for its next product......

The HP and the new Epsons are HERE NOW and many of us are really enjoying them NOW....

I am not going to go thru all the pros and cons about alll these printers...this is done ad nauesuem and you can search the net....make up your own mind...

But the Epson is the printer of choice for most professionals, followed by HP and Canon who?? Not the home arm chair experts...

Lots of supported paper from Epson and Lots of other third party paper companies WITH profiles....here, now and in the future.....

Please dont get me wrong I really like my Canon printers, but I like my Epson the best....if Canon does get their act together this will be great but its market timing STINKS....

Lets see how well it does all around with both color and BW's...

All the best
Alex








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Old Jun 24, 2005, 12:55 PM   #59
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Every printer company goes through a model change almost yearly, or sooner in some cases. The Epson 1280 and 2200 have been out for a long time, even longer with the 1280. Canon has released a new wide format, or large format every year, or sooner for the last three years now. The i9900 and ip8500 have eight seperate, individual colors, not six, like the Epson R1800 - which is just an R800 put into wide format, (remember don't count the double blacks, they don't fire at the same time, and the gloss optimizer is not a color). Talk to any artists that paints and you'll find out that having an HP cartridge with three shades of grey or black are not "seperate" colors, so their marketing of a "nine" color printer is not true either. IN the last 5 years Canon has drawn the highest percentage of market share, worldwide, over the other two competitors. HP has lost over22% percent market share in just the last three years. Epson has continued well. The choise of professionals is slowing changing. When you check on who makes the choice of professionals when it comes to silver halide photography and not to mention digital, Canon EOS 1D2, Mark II, 10D, 20D, ect...yes..it's Canon. Everybody is always waiting for the next product to come out. HP hasn't done anything new except live off of their acclaimed name for almost the last 10 years. Epson and Canon have at least improved their technologies, made printing more afforable with seperate cartridges and continue to do so. HP is still the poster child name in laser, but many don't know that Canon manufactures all of HP's laser products, still to this day. I agree with the employee at Best Buy. It's funny beecause someone said, "we have Canon expert" in the house, and forgot to see that he doesn't work or rep. for Canon, he's a Best Buy guy who is told to push what sells..hhmm... BTW, Canon has the smallest droplet of ink put out...1 pico litre in size at 9600x2400 dpi. No one else has that, with a semi-conductor type print head made to last, now, a lifetifme - that can be removed and cleaned; double-sided printing with a built in duplexer as well. I understand everyone goes by their own experiences and some with Canon have been bad...in the past. For the last 5 years, Canon has been getting awards with Cnet, Consumer Reports and PC Magazine, just to name a few for their products. The published figures (sales reports), from the big 3 companies don't lie. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 1:33 PM   #60
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This has got to be the biggest bunch of marketing crap I have ever heard!!!

Cnet, Consumer Reports and PC Magazine....if you rely on their diatribe your lost my friend....

You may get away with this logic here but would get laughed off of the real professional sites....

Who are you trying to kid.....

You must have lots of Canon stock....your credibility to me and others is 0...a big "0".

You talk like Canon printers are the only gamre in town.....man are you selling abridge or what...

Your great with nebuolus marketing hype....but it aint working here....how many exsiting Canon printers right here right now can print BW' as well as HP or Epson....color cast city...but if your Canon color blind I can understand..

And oh by the way I own a Canon 20D, a Canon 10D and A 1Ds.....

And stll prefer to print on non-canon printers for all my professional fine art customers....

I would be happy to see Canon enter this part of the market place...but so far their timing still STINKS.....

Anyone that takes this guy and this BS seriously should have their head examined.

Over and Out.
A.






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