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Old Jun 24, 2005, 1:40 PM   #61
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The published figures (sales reports), from the big 3 companies don't lie. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

YOUR SOOO RIGHT...

lots of people drive chevys and fords, but a few drive BMW's and Mecrededes


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Old Jun 24, 2005, 3:11 PM   #62
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:roll: I'm not talking about the professional review on Cnet, but are you aware of the NORMAL PEOPLE that buy ANY kind of electronic product can go onto CNET and put their OWN PERSONAL OPINION IN? You look at those overall ratings, by PEOPLE that do purchase these; surely one cannot blast the reviews by common people??? Next time on Cnet, look at the link for "write your own review", or "rate this product", then it asks you for pro's and con's and a rating, along with a section to write something if you like.
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 3:38 PM   #63
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HP and Epson have been sued more times than I can count on both hands and toes in just the last ten years (some even going to class action status), most recently in the last year and a half. And this has been over deceptive practices regarding how their ink cartridges work. This information can be verified. Also, If someone doubts Canon's technologies or abilities about their being the only manufacturer to lay down a 1pico litre droplet at 9600x2400 dpi, then sue them and see how far you get. It's NO scecret that HP has LOST over 22% market share, worldwide, just in the last 3 years. 6% just in the last three months (recall on NBS news just recently, the CEO of HP was fired). Gee, I wonder why??? The market share figures do NOT lie. Go ahead and check out the financial records for yourself. They are published online. Canon has grown more market share, worldwide, in the last 5 years than any other printer company around (and I'm just referring to printer sales, not cameras). In the stilland digital camera arena, Canonhas the highest percentrage of market share, worldwide, higher thanANY other brandof camera. Again, this is a published fact. Second to IBM, Canon holds the highest number of technology based patents, worldwide. Another fact that is NOT in dispute and has been published. Well, I hope, and don't think that this post has any "marketing" cliche's in it. BTW, if anyone has ever attended the CES is Vegas, or overseas, like they do in Germany every year, then it's clear that Canon is in the professional market and has a handfull or professional, commericial grade printers on the market. Every heard of the ImagePrograff W6400 and W8400 large format commericial printers. So whoever thinks that these are a joke or that Canon is lying about it's printhead, printing technologies or patents, should put their money where their mouth is and sue them. If you believe you're right, then go for it. Also, for the users our there that use Canon camera's, well actually all of them except Olympus (because they are the parent company of Epson), needs to know that the Canon printers (drivers and software), read MORE of the colorspace than sRGB, and even moreso than standard display monitors. I'm referring to the YCC colorspace that digital cameras use, as a standard, to tag the image (Exif 2.2), data on, which allows the image printed out to be the most accurate possible of what the camera saw when the picture was snapped. Canon as well, is the only printer on the market to have eight colors in their printers, not two shades of black or a tri-color cartridge of three greys (which if you talk to any artist, lets say an oil painter for example), they would tell you that those are not counted as THREE colors. HP's "MARKETING" says though that their machines are "NINE" colors. Now is this TRUE???? And those those on the "archival" soap box, the BCI-6 inks will last in a frame for at least 35-40 years; in an albu, m about a 100. Coming this fall, will be the BCI-7 series (already out in Japan), whhich tauts 100 years framed. It's called the Chroma-life 100 ink. But in conslusion, the individual needs to make their own, informed decision. Ihad worked at Best Buy in the last, in-fact several other electronics stores, including Ritz Camera, and have had next to none, when it comes to returns on Canon printers (going back about 5 years now). For those that are inersted in how Canon printers read the digital camera info and for an overview of Canon's patented technolgies, please follow these links:

http://www.canon.com/technology/pdf/tech2005e.pdf

That is an overview of all of their electronics (from the consumer line, to professional, to medical)

Here is the document regarding reading the colorspace from digital cameras. Again, the recorded tagged information, known and Exif 2.2 is a standard among digital cameras.

http://bubblejet.canon.com.my/exif3.htm

Canon's professional grade, commercial large format printers:

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...;modelid=11264 (W6400)

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...;modelid=11258 (W8400)

But again, the two posts on this thread, mine and the current guy that works at Best Buy are based on our OWN experiences, which have been positive ones, all with Canon products, everyone is entitled to their own, constructive (hopefully), opinion.
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 3:58 PM   #64
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Everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, but the way in which you write suggests that the ONLY opinion that is right is your own.

The facts are very simple. All of the printers from HP, Canon and Epson have different pros and cons. You make your choices based on the features YOU want. Of course, once you buy one of those printers, you will have a bias towards the one you chose. It is human nature and totally understandable.

If you want cast free B&W without any trouble, out of the box, the HP does this the cheapest. Epson now has the capability with the R2400 but at a considerably higher price. If you want the widest colour gamut and the fastest print speed, you choose Canon, but compared to HP (with their own papers) and Epson, you lose archival ability. If you want the widest paper support, best archival and water proofness you should choose Epson. We could of course start the debate about print head clogs though if you don't use it for 2 months....which some will agree with and some will strongly deny.

I must also point out that the droplet size is totally irrelevant. 4pl and below, you simply cannot see the print dot without a magnifying glass. This is marketing tripe to make you trade up. The R2400 has a 3pl droplet size and it produces stunning colour prints with no visible print dot. Its a bit like saying you can notice the difference between 14 megapixels and 12 megapixels when printing on an A4 piece of paper!

Jonathan


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Old Jun 24, 2005, 4:08 PM   #65
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The Epson R1800 quotes a 1.5 pico litre drop. HP doesn't even think it's an important specification and doesn't even talk about it (Canon and Epson do). I would have to say, again from the professionals and prosumer customer's that I came in contact with could see a 4 pico litre drop, especially when color would shift in a photo. 2 is hard to see I admit, but you know what? People do come into the store WITH A LOUPE in their EYE! No lie!!! But hey, to each is own.
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Old Jun 24, 2005, 4:33 PM   #66
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Interestingly whilst the R1800 has a 1.5pl droplet size, the R2400 has a 3pl. No official reason given for this although some suspect it is because of the integrated gloss optimizer.

Jonathan


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Old Jun 24, 2005, 7:31 PM   #67
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Once again Isap you must own a lot of Canon Stock...all you care about is patents and droplit size...

You spew marketing crap on marketing crap....

I dont give a crap on how many inks this printer has or that printer has....or the number of patents a company, has..but you seem to stuck here like a broken Canon marketing rep...so disinjenious.....absolutely CRAP.

This is so funny it hurts..

Enjoy your chevy....going to drive my BMW.

A.
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Old Jun 25, 2005, 1:16 AM   #68
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I agree with you adydula, Epsonare excellent printers and I also love my R1800. I really don't have any complaint with Epson. Please understand that I admit Canon does not get a great rating on their print life. This is why I use the R1800 for all art and photo work but use the i9900 for all designs and catalog layout prints. Really my only grudge lies with HP and the lies retailers spread to consumers because HP offers the product cheaper in order to allow the retailer to receive more margin which makes the retailer push the HP printers more than any other. As many know, margin is what runs businesses and so all companies push their top margin products more than others. I feel that unless you own or have these printers at hand to test out throughly, please do not be telling us why your HP is better than others as I have seen many do. I have tested most printers from $60 inkjets to $5,000 color oki laser systems. I feel that HP must work on their rollers since about 80% of the HP printers tested could not feed paper properly after a few prints. Also they cannot seem to get their color tanks to produce proper skin tone. A picturetaken with a Canon 1D Mark II looked way better when printed on the R800 or IP6000D then on the HP 8450. I have seen the same results in the wide format printers we are discussing. I may get the new Canon when it comes out, but personally I am waiting for a company to produce a cost effective dye--sublimation that can do 8.5 X 11 or greater. I don't care what company makes this printer, I will buy in a heartbeat and just put up with the company that produced it.
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Old Jun 25, 2005, 2:23 AM   #69
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Thank you iSAPS Guy! I wish many were like you and knew that Canon has done the best in sales and has satisfied more customers in the DI (Digital Imaging) market than any other company. Now when it comes to printers I see an equal share of Canon and Epson printers sold and very few of both ever returned. I hate to back people up but when it does come to cameras (which is my true area of expertise) Canon is the Maybach47of Cameras (for those how are not car lovers the Maybach is a Mercedes owned company, who's only goal is to compete with Bent. & Rolls. The 47 stands for a price tag of $470,000.00 just the same as the 68 stands for $680,000.00) Of course Leica has to be the Maybach 68 of Cameras:-)But since I am considered our region (now territory expert) I feel that Canon are the best cameras, we find they have the lowest return rate and offer the best picture result along with a easy to use camera features. To those that want to tell me they love their Sony, Fuji, or HPcameras, PLEASE DON'T WAIST YOUR BREATH TALKING TO ME! Now for Nikon, Olympus, Kodak, Casio, Panasonic, Pentax, and/orLeica cameras please tell me how you like them, I even take pictures in to show the team and if you don't mind sending them to me I will pass them on to those of my team to look at. I try to let my team decide for themselves which cameras they feel comfortable selling, but in all it is the customer that we want to find the best camera for not use. Also to those that are going to complain I do have two team members that do love Sony, sorry we all seem to hate the Fuji brand. I know this is way off topic of printers but can't help myself since, like I said cameras are my place of expertise and knowledge. I have enjoyed this discussion and love to hear others opinion on products since this is what I do with the 60,000+ employees throughout our company. I would love to see a few tests on the water tolerance of the HP, Canon, & Epson. Woulddo myself, but takes alot of our time and needed attention (which I just don't have to give into this experiment.) Also adydula, many may drive Ford and GM (which owns Chevy) butboth have had the worst sales years everwhere Japanese cars and Germancars are taking allof our money. Please I driveAudi,Mercedes, and Mitsubishi cars and trust me these companies like Canon had some of the best sales reports ever. ( Hope you don't own a '05 BMW since the NEW '05 Audi kicked their butt in all tests and even price, also in features. Though since Audi and BMW compete witheach other the same as Mercedes and Lexus compete, it can only be expected thatonehas to come out the winner.)
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Old Jun 25, 2005, 3:37 AM   #70
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I just ordered a Epson r1800 and after reading all of the stuff you guys have been writing I really hope I did not make a mistake. I am wearied about the head getting cloged up and I know it can't be replaced any comment would be appreciated also I am strongly thinking about useing second party cartridges in it and wonder if that could be a big problem here is a link of the company I plan to order some ink cartridges from. If any one has had any experience with them let me know thanks

http://www.inkjetcartridge.com/r800bundle.html
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