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Old Dec 13, 2002, 4:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by marcoangels
Well Greg, you seem to know your stuff, and you are more of an expert than I am, but in my experiences, I have returned 2 Epson printers because the output was not nearly as good as that from my HP Original Photosmart Printer, I mean, there was no comparison, HP blew Epson out of the water! I just purchased a Canon S820, and I am very pleased with it, it is quick and the individual ink tanks make it a very desirable choice...I wish I could talk glowingly about the Epson printers, but I can't, they've been a 'thorn in my foot', compared to my HP and now my Canon.

'For God so loved the world, that He gave His only son, so that whoever believes in Him, will have eternal life...'
Blessings, Johnny...

Im betting a couple of things. One you did'nt have the quality set to the max on your epson printer. Second you might have had an epson c82 or an epson c80. Third you might have been using HP paper on your epson. I think its all how you tune it. Some people are advanced users and figure it all out others are simple users and dont. I remember when I first started toying with the epson printers after using HP for several years. The ease of use is'nt as high but the tuneability is higher along with the print quality. Although it did take me probably about a day worth in tuning and printing to get the best results. Nowdays I reccomend getting a color profile software. Also somethign wierd with epsons is that in order to get the highest resolution sometimes you have to go to custom then advanced and manually set it there.
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Old Dec 13, 2002, 4:38 PM   #12
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OH yes I forgot on the printhead going bad part it really depends how much you use it. IF you use it at least once a month you can keep it a long time. If you use it once every 6 months you will have printhead clogs.
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Old Dec 13, 2002, 11:18 PM   #13
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An interesting historical point when considering inkjet printers is that the thermal printhead was invented by EPSON. They licensed this technology and went on to develop the Piezo printhead which is far superior to thermal since it allows smaller and variable droplet sizes and lasts for virtually ever as long as it is used frequently enough to prevent clogging. I've had two epsons, both of which are printing as well as the first day. The key is to print something at least every three or four days. The heads can be easily unclogged, but that is another post.

If you add in the ability to use aftermarket brand ink, the cost per page is incredibly low. I have been using PrintRite ink for about 4 years or so with great results. The color cartridges cost $1.79 for black and $2.88 for color. This is not even the lowest priced ink available, but I've never tried those since the PrintRite seems to be of excellent quality.

Lets see anyone with an HP match that! Even refills cost more.
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Old Dec 14, 2002, 7:19 AM   #14
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Cost of cartridges is meaningless! It takes three Epson cartridges to print the same 100+ 8x10 glossy that can be done with a single high-capacity HP cartridge. I use standard original cartridge pricing from Costco for comparison and HP does cost less!

The quality difference is not the issue for me, and I have posted previously... I've made a trade-off between cost.
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The printhead either has to be aligned or replaced once a month or we see lines going through our prints.
Is this because the printhead is part of the cartridges? and not the printer like on the Epson. This is why I look for the S9000 to replace my aging 1270. They do wear out... and a new printerhead is replaced each time a cartridge is changed. BTW has anyone check out the PhotoSmart automatic head alignment with the blue LED, quite a sight!
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Old Dec 14, 2002, 9:15 PM   #15
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Read the rest of that line I was referring to the canon printer.

But either way I'm betting the HP cartridge you use is the 78A cartridge which is a good deal for printing except that you are only using 3 colors. Also if you are comparing that one to an epson which one are you comparing to. I can use my epson 980 and get 100-130 8x10 prints that do look better than the HP one. If I use an epson 880 it woudl probably drop to around 60. If I use an epson photo 785epx I wont get anywhere near that.

If you are trying to say you are using the new HP cartrdiges that are found in teh 5550 and the 7150. I'm calling you out.
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Old Dec 14, 2002, 10:21 PM   #16
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I'm talking about both my 1270 and my 785EPX, which always seems to run out of ink! That's why I always have to resort to the Photosmart that put out a quite a decent picture even though it only needs 3 colors over both my older and newer Epsons! Well at least most of the people I gave the pictures to can't tell the difference since they don't put the picture side by side... (BTW my 1st generation PhotoSmart also uses 6 colors but suffer the same fate since it too runs out of ink after around 50 8x10!)

Like I said, I don't doubt the Epson quality, I just wanted to give Canon a try this time around and hopefully I'll buy another Epson in the future with the $200 saving. At least the Canon doesn't leave as much junk files in the temp directory as my 1270 does after it printed. The 1270 now put out lines even after cleaning the heads and all 5 colors and black show up on the test patterns... 8)
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Old Dec 15, 2002, 11:32 AM   #17
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Like I said, I don't doubt the Epson quality, I just wanted to give Canon a try this time around and hopefully I'll buy another Epson in the future with the $200 saving. At least the Canon doesn't leave as much junk files in the temp directory as my 1270 does after it printed. The 1270 now put out lines even after cleaning the heads and all 5 colors and black show up on the test patterns... 8)[/quote]


Sounds like you need a printhead alignment. I notced with my epson that about once a year I have to do a printhead alignment. But after that everything looks good. Also you might want to check into the latest drivers off the website as well.

The canon will give you tiny ines a lot when you do volume. OH yeah the canon tends to give you about 60-80 prints per cardtrige set depending on how much of each ink you use. Make sure you get yourself an extra set of photo cyan and photo magenta. Those are the first to run out.


Also in the next couple of weeks I may write up a direct real life side by side comparison between the canon 900 and the epson 960 to show up cnet. My review will pretty much focus on the results of quality (Images will be scanned and posted in review) and speed( I want to create a standard) maybe a little bit of ink observation. But I'm still debating on spending money to do reviews with. I really want to finally create a review between these printers thats very direct and fair. Hell I'd love to do the whole shelf of printers. But thats something harder to do not to mention time consuming. But I'm the type that would print and scan every setting on all types of paper just to make sure I got an equal review. I would even go as far as finding out which papers work with which printers.

I think all reviewers should do it this way. Sure it would take more budget but at least you could see the results for yourself as they were explained.

The main things I think people want to know about printers are speed, Quality, ease of use, ability, compatibility. Hell I think I could probably spend an 4-8 hours reviewing one printer just to make sure I got the numbers right.

I just need to find photos that have exif, PIM, ICM.
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Old Dec 15, 2002, 6:43 PM   #18
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Believe me I aligned the printheads and even cleaned the nozzle before each job. My PhotoEX did it too several years ago, and now it's the 1270 turn. I did downloaded the latest drivers to see, but it didn't help since the 1270 was doing fine with the old driver until it aged (I guess S/W doesn't change with time)... I think it's a common problem in this type of printers with the heads built in. BTW cleaning the nozzles doesn't help in the ink department either. The 5-color cartridges are barely adequate for the 785EPX let alone a wide carriage ones. The cartridges look very similar (size wise) from one generation to another with the newer ones having a monitor chip built in as far as can tell!

IMO I think this 5-colors cartridge type is too small for a large format output printer, and that's another reason I wanted to give the S9000 a try...
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Old Dec 15, 2002, 11:03 PM   #19
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a friend of mine got the Canon S9000 and the output is way better than his HP photo printer was. It looks flawless. But the main reason he chose it was that he can get archival inks in bulk at one tenth the cost of epson inks. So he will be saving thousands of dollars in ink over the years.
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Old Dec 16, 2002, 12:27 AM   #20
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Whew, quite a bit going on in this forum! I'm with NHL, as far as being an HP fan, because even though it is slow, it produces excellent prints, to my eyes. I only print 5 to 6 pics a week, I'm a home user, not a professional.
I do like the speed and quality of the Canon S820 and the 'borderless' prints, but the HP still gives the sharpest and most realistic prints.
Gregerson, I realize you are in the upper class of reviewers, but I still don't like the Epson at all. Yes, I did use HP paper, which is the heaviest glossy photo paper available, in the mass market, and I assume I used the 'highest quality' setting on the Epson, but that is my point, the Epson, while being superior in your view, took up too much time and experimenting to get a decent pic...my original HP Photosmart printer gave me excellent images without any manipulations or headaches, that is what I want...
My ex-wife just bought the latest $99 Epson, after having used the HP Photosmart for 4 years, and she went through the entire cartridges of ink, before proclaiming that the Epson was 'a piece of sh*t'...granted, she does not have very much technological savvy, but that's where most of us are...Blessings, Johnny
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