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Old Mar 8, 2008, 3:58 PM   #1
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I'm getting there slow but sure with the help of you guys!

So far I havethe following (haven't bought camera yet):

Lens mate 58mm adapter and 58mm lens cap.
Sony 1758 Tele lens.
Other stuff like batteries, charger, cleaning kit, Thipod (full size), etc,.

Question:
1.When I use the lensmate adapter and the tele adapter,I am supposing the filter will go inbetween the two ( no threads on end of tele) so I will have to have threads on the filter , both sides, I'm asking if this is correct for conformation.

2. What would be an excellent UV filter (can you give me a brand/number) for this situation (threads on both sides)? I know nothing really about filters but am assuming again it should be a UV filter .




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Old Mar 8, 2008, 9:13 PM   #2
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Changeling, if the Sony lens attaches via threads, then it sounds reasonable to me that you would have to put a double-threaded filter between the Lens Mate and the Sony when you want to use a filter.

A question that I would ask either Lens Mate, Sony or both, is what the thread depth requirement would be for secure attachment of the Sony to the Lens Mate, and whether a filter would provide that depth on both ends. It might be a non-issue if the Sony isn't very heavy, but if the filter doesn't deliver the minimum recommended thread depth, you could be in trouble if you whack the Sony on something while attached to the filter. Filters are very low profile and light and may not provide the thread depth of a larger, heavier accessory.

Why do you want a UV filter on this rig? As a UV filter it won't do much on a digital camera which is not as sensitive to UV as film is. Most people who put a UV filter on their digital camera are using it to help protect the front element of their lens. Given the position of the filter on your arrangement, it won't protect anything. I can see using it on the Lens Mate alone, but not while the Sony is attached. If you want to use a filter between the two, it should be a filter that will actually make a difference to the picture, like a neutral density or a polarizer. Although a polarizer used in between might be even less secure than a single-element filter.

Grant

Edit: Forgot about the second question!

Any major manufacturer like Tiffen, Hoya, B+W, Heliopan, etc., make good stuff. Whatever you get, it should be made from optical glass (not all are) and at least be coated. Multi-coating is better, but the prices can escalate quickly.
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Old Mar 9, 2008, 2:41 PM   #3
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granthagen wrote:
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Changeling, if the Sony lens attaches via threads, then it sounds reasonable to me that you would have to put a double-threaded filter between the Lens Mate and the Sony when you want to use a filter.
This is the way I also see it.

A question that I would ask either Lens Mate, Sony or both, is what the thread depth requirement would be for secure attachment of the Sony to the Lens Mate, and whether a filter would provide that depth on both ends. It might be a non-issue if the Sony isn't very heavy, but if the filter doesn't deliver the minimum recommended thread depth, you could be in trouble if you whack the Sony on something while attached to the filter. Filters are very low profile and light and may not provide the thread depth of a larger, heavier accessory.

This is a good idea, I never even thought about thread depth, I'll do as you suggest.

Why do you want a UV filter on this rig? As a UV filter it won't do much on a digital camera which is not as sensitive to UV as film is. Most people who put a UV filter on their digital camera are using it to help protect the front element of their lens. Given the position of the filter on your arrangement, it won't protect anything. I can see using it on the Lens Mate alone, but not while the Sony is attached. If you want to use a filter between the two, it should be a filter that will actually make a difference to the picture, like a neutral density or a polarizer. Although a polarizer used in between might be even less secure than a single-element filter.

I was going to add the lensmate/ UV filter when I wasn't using the "Tele" for protection on the Canon lens.

I actually didn't knoy the UV filter would provide nothing if used between the lensmate and Sony tele, are you saying I should probably just use the lensmate and the Sony tele by themselves, without the UV filter in between?

I'm wide open to advise on this setup because I am NOT experienced in photography at all but trying to learn.

Thanks very much for your input, it is very much appreciated.

Grant

Edit: Forgot about the second question!

Any major manufacturer like Tiffen, Hoya, B+W, Heliopan, etc., make good stuff. Whatever you get, it should be made from optical glass (not all are) and at least be coated. Multi-coating is better, but the prices can escalate quickly.

Would you care to give me a recommendation/s ?

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Old Mar 9, 2008, 7:43 PM   #4
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Changeling asks: I actually didn't knoy the UV filter would provide nothing if used between the lensmate and Sony tele, are you sayi should probably just use the lensmate and the Sony tele by themselves?

Yes. I think that it is the general consensus that UV filters are not very useful on digital cameras as UV filters because the sensors are not nearly as sensitive to UV light as film. I've read a few things that claim that digital image sensors are more sensitive to UV than film, so you really should have a UV filter! I think that the people who claimed this were trying to sell UV filters. This claim of the vulnerability of sensors to UV might even be true on the face of it, but I think that the sensor cover itself acts as a UV filter as well as providing a few other functions.

If you want to use a good UV filter as lens protection, that's fine. Many people do it, though this is one of those issues like politics or religion that generates a lot of heated controversy betwixt adherents and opponents of using filters as lens protection.

Anyway, I see no benefit in using a filter purely as lens protection if it's going to be sandwiched between your lens/filter adapter and an accessory lens. In that position it doesn't protect anything.

Would you care to give me a recommendation/s ?

The mention of Tiffen, Hoya, B+W and Heliopan was a recommendation. I won't recommend any specific filter or even one specific manufacturer. Most people have a certain price range in mind, and you shop some reputable brands to see what falls into that range. Each brand has numerous filters of the same type, the price going up with the features. Just ask some questions, do a little homework, and get the best quality filter that you can afford. Remember that the filter will be added to the optical path of any lens that you use it with, so you don't want some el-cheapo piece of junk.
That doesn't necessarily mean that with your set-up you're going to see enough difference between a coated optical glass filter selling for $20.00 and a supermulticoated digital filter selling for $90.00 to justify the extra $70.00. It pretty much comes down to how hard your money is to come by and what your priorities are.

Grant





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Old Mar 9, 2008, 8:01 PM   #5
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Hi Grant, everything you have said sounds like very sound advice to me, and i plan on takinge it!

Another question, when you mentioned the strength of the "Filter" connection relative to being between the lensmate and the Sony 1758 something rung a bell, LOL!
It seems I remeber that some manufacturer uses "Metal" as a ring material instead of plastic like Hoya i think. Is the strength factor for a polarizer filter worth going for the metal?

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Old Mar 10, 2008, 12:40 AM   #6
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Another question, when you mentioned the strength of the "Filter" connection relative to being between the lensmate and the Sony 1758 something rung a bell, LOL!
It seems I remeber that some manufacturer uses "Metal" as a ring material instead of plastic like Hoya i think. Is the strength factor for a polarizer filter worth going for the metal?


The better quality filters will have rings made of metal -- aluminum or brass, mostly, I think.

Brass rings are more expensive but they tend not to expand and contract with the temperature as much as other materials so they are less prone to binding in their mount.

Again, price is a definite factor. If the upgrade from aluminum to brass is reasonable (with you being the judge of what "reasonable" means), then go for it. Same can be said about going from a plastic mounting ring to aluminum. Personally,with filters in general, I would be more concerned about the filter material itself and the precision with which it's ground and the coatings than I would be about the ring material. But, quality might be a package deal; meaning that a filter maker might not bother putting really good glass into a plastic mount.

If you were thinking of using a polarizer sandwiched between your lens adapter and the Sony lens, I would be partial to a metal ring since any filter in that position is going to be subject to unusual amounts of stress. What I said earlier about asking the opinion of the manufacturers of the various parts of your sandwich about compatibility issues is especially valid for a polarizer since they are two-part filters that have to rotate to adjust the effect.

Of course, ultimately, it's going to be your call as to what you stick onto that lens adapter. If consulting the various companies involved yields ambiguous advice and you are the adventurous sort who wouldn't be too bummed if one or more of the ingredients in the sandwich broke, then just have fun with it. :-)

Grant
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 2:45 PM   #7
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Who makes brass framed filters ? Is this a quality filter.
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Old Mar 10, 2008, 7:49 PM   #8
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Who makes brass framed filters ? Is this a quality filter.

I don't know which brands offer this, but I imagine that since a brass frame would only appeal to people who are putting quality concerns over price, the company wouldn't go and stick plastic or white glass lenses in a brass frame.

Check out the websites of some of the major filter manufacturers. They have a great deal of information on their filter lines, including (usually) how they're made.

Once you get a few specific filters that interest you, shop around and see what kind of price deals are available. I don't really know what the correlation is between most retailer's prices and the manufacturer's suggested retail price. The few filters that I have were gotten used off of eBay.

Grant
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Old Mar 11, 2008, 4:23 PM   #9
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Mysuggestion based on personal experience from having hadmany different long zoom cameras (brands and models) as well asthe Sony VCL-H1758, is to not add anything between the lens and the converter. When using converters (tele or WA) with those 10x/12x/15x/18x zoom lenses, the converter should be as close to the lens as possible for several reasons: better focusing, sharper images and reduced vignetting. Usually UV filters don't do much for digital photographyin terms of reducing haze and such. They used to have more of an impacton film. So, with digital photography, the primary objective of an UV filter is to provide lens protection. Since the Sony converter does not have a front thread, its glass can no be protected by any filter. Therefore, having a filter between the converter and the camera lens will only degrade the IQ.

As for filter brands, my favorites are Sigma and Hoya (make sure you buy the real thing and multi coated). The B+W's are good quality filters but way over priced IMO. I have one and found it to be just as good as the Sigma/Hoya. I don't like Tiffen and Quantaray for they feel cheap. Usually the glass is a bit loose and the coating is thin.
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Old Mar 12, 2008, 5:25 PM   #10
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Tullio, there is nothing like experience in my opinion/experience, and what you say makes sense . I was going to order B+W Polorizer and UV filter this evening because I also really believe there should be no "weak links" in a chain, so to speak.
Even discounted, this was going to cost $140.00 for the 2.
Evidently through experience you have gained the knowledge that can help me a lot !

My intention as you see it (filters between adapters and Tele) is my idea, which no one has basically had comments about here, this is what I've been trying to find out!

This also would alleviate the high cost of the B+W filters, because my interest was supporting the two sections with brass rather than plastic or aluminum, that is the strength aspect. However they also met I am told the finest filters going, I really don't know.!

I would think that a good UV filter would still be a 'Posative " because I plan on leaving the lensmate adapter on the camera with a UV filter and "Cap" when not in use. This would encapsulate the Canon lens system between the lensmate adapter/filter/cap. What do you think?

Trust me, I am wide open to all the information you would like to share, it is obvious you know what you are talking about, and obvious I know very little!



Changeling




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