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Old Dec 8, 2003, 4:38 PM   #1
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Default DMC-FZ10 or Nikon4500 with add-on lens??

I love telephoto (sport and nature), should i buy a DMC-FZ10 (12x optical zoom with Image.Stab O.I.S) or should I buy a Nikon Coolpix SQ or 4500 with and add-on sharpshooter lens from CKCpower?
Is there any solution to make the Panasonic DMC-FZ10 a 24X or 36X optical zoom (with add-on lens)?

Thanks, Francesco
private e.mail at [email protected]
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Old Dec 8, 2003, 7:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: DMC-FZ10 or Nikon4500 with add-on lens??

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoro_ita
I love telephoto (sport and nature), should i buy a DMC-FZ10 (12x optical zoom with Image.Stab O.I.S) or should I buy a Nikon Coolpix SQ or 4500 with and add-on sharpshooter lens from CKCpower?
Is there any solution to make the Panasonic DMC-FZ10 a 24X or 36X optical zoom (with add-on lens)?
In terms of focal length reach, the 4500 plus its accessory lens converters is certainly much better because you have fisheye (FC-E8 ), 24mm (WC-E63), 300mm (TC-E2), 450mm (TC-E3ED) and many other monoscope type lenses such as Kenko 6X, Kenko 8X, EagleEye 5X and CrystalVue 8X. Most of these lenses are cheaper than the to-be-available Panasonic converters for the FZ10. However, there is a problem one must understand. The FZ-10 has a constant aperture F2.8 lens while the 4500 has F5.1 at the long end and F2.6 at the short end. This means the FZ-10 allows you to use a faster shutter speed at 420mm. Moreover, the 4500 has some focal length gap because once the TC-E3ED 3X is mounted, the on-camera lens can only be zoomed back a little. Image quality wise, since no one performed any scientific test shots, we don't know which one is better. Given the fact that Nikon's TC-E3ED is the best 3X converter, I am sure the 4500 plus TC-E3ED may be very comparable with the FZ-10. BTW, most of the 4500 lenses converters are available used on eBay with reasonable prices. Check my Coolpix 4500 user guide for more details regarding the 4500.

CK
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam
Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500 User Guide
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Old Dec 10, 2003, 2:50 AM   #3
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Thanks Shene for your reply.

Will be ever avaible a lens converter for DMC-FZ10 ?
I could not find the 1.5x converter for the DMC-FZ10 on the panasonic shop and in other shop on the web.

Thanks ToToRo
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Old Dec 10, 2003, 5:47 AM   #4
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Hi. I've dug out this immediate reponse to your post that I didn't manage to send yesterday (page not found when tried to log on to Stevesforums).

If you are interested in telephoto photography the most significant figure of the FZ-10 is perhaps the magnification of its lens at maximum zoom rather than the zoom of 12x figure (which represents the ratio of its widest wide angle setting to the longest telephoto). At maximum zoom, the lens is an equivalent of a 420mm (or so) lens on a 35mm camera which can be understood as giving an 8x or so magnification (a 50mm "standard" lens being considered non magnifiying). A (very expensive) 1.5x teleconvertor should be later available from Panasonic which preserves the f2.8 maximum aperture of the camera while allowing an effective 12x magnification. Some users have already reported some success with the Olympus TCON-17 1.7x convertor. These 12-15x magnifications are probably pretty much at the limit of what is currently manageable with handheld photography. Similar magnifications are possible with the Nikon cameras you mention, but you will have lost aperture, image stabilisation and perhaps convenience and ease of focusing against the Panasonic. That's not to say that in skilled hands excellent results have not been produced.

To go beyond these magnifications with a digicam, you will need to use a tripod and a telescope. For this branch of photography, known as digiscoping, the Nikon 4500 is an ideal choice. To digiscope with the FZ-10, on the other hand, it is likely to be much more difficult to produce excellent results.

If you haven't seen it, the "About Digiscoping" section here has info on Nikon 4500 with Eagle Eye 5x convertor as well as digiscoping :
http://www.digiscoping.ca/portfolio1e.html
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 1:32 PM   #5
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Default Thanks for you reply normjackson..

Thanks for you reply normjackson..
For 12x telephot FZ10 is the best choice becoude you have all in one item (but Nikon 4500 + T3D 3x lens can achive the same result, is this right?) . Instead for 24x or more magnification is better a 4500 attached to a scope or something similar...
is this right?

Thanks, ToToRo
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 5:10 PM   #6
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Default 4500 plus TC-E3ED and Monoscopes

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoro_ita
For 12x telephot FZ10 is the best choice becoude you have all in one item (but Nikon 4500 + T3D 3x lens can achive the same result, is this right?) .
Yes, if you need a 12X camera, the FZ10 is the king. As mentioned in my previous post, the 4500 plus TC-E3ED can go a little farther (ie 450mm); but, there will be a small focal length gap somewhere from 300mm to near 400mm because zooming the camera lens back may cause vignetting. Another disadvantage of using 4500 plus TC-E3ED is that the maximum aperture at 450mm is F5.1 rather than FZ-10's F2.8. This will make a huge difference if shooting in low light situations. On other hand, in bright sunlight, I don't think the FZ10 and 4500 plus TC-E3ED would have very much image quality difference at the 400mm end, although I have not yet seen any scientific tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoro_ita
Instead for 24x or more magnification is better a 4500 attached to a scope or something similar...is this right?
Converters for a high ratio zoom lens like the FZ10 is very difficult to design because any defect of the converter will be magnified 12 times, and in most cases, are restricted to small ratio such as 1.5X (e.g., Nikon's 5700 only have a 1.5X converter TC-T15ED). This is the reason that good converters for FZ-10 and TC-E3ED are expensive. One can certainly attach a converter to FZ-10, but the quality would be very questionable. By the same reason and due to the fact that the 4500 has small lens diameter, the 4500 can be used with virtually every 1.25" eyepiece scope, birding, spotting and astro. In fact, there are eyepieces specially designed for the 4500 without any adapter! FZ-10 would have this advantage because its lens is too big. If you intend to use high power scope, the 4500 is the way to go. Moreover, the 9xx and 4500 series can use some good quality monoscopes such as EagleEye 5X and CrystalVue 8X and Nikon's 6X for close-up.

Take a look at my 4500 user guide for possible converters and monoscopes.

CK
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam
Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500 User Guide
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Old Dec 12, 2003, 12:24 AM   #7
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While digiscoping has produced excellent nature pictures (birds in particular), not sure it is so suitable for the other interest you mention, sports photography (unless we include chess as a sport...) For indoors or floodlit sports even the FZ10 may struggle to give you shutter speeds fast enough to freeze the action (given that the high ISO values of a DSLR will not be available).

In case you think you may be interested in digiscoping (we're probably talking effort, patience and expense), here are a few more links (with links of their own) on digiscoping :
http://www.jayandwanda.com/coolpix/captain/captain.html
http://www.spainbirds.com/ing/digisc...igiscoping.htm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.ho...cope/index.htm

One of the best forums on digiscoping for asking advice is at :
http://www.birdforum.net

At a pinch you might be able to digiscope with the FZ10 attached to a suitable 2" eyepiece perhaps attached to something like the following :
http://www.company7.com/orion/telesc...n80EDf7.5.html
But you'd have no guarantee of success and this scope is not compact, armoured or waterproof hence less than ideal for terrestrial use. Really, as Shene mentions, simpler camera lenses (rather than super fast, or super zoom lenses) tend to work better for digiscoping. (The web page I mentioned in the Panasonic forum in my response to you has a link to a page where the writer compares his moon picture taken with an Olympus E20 + tcon-300 + tcon14b to the much superior picture taken by somebody using a scope and a comparatively humble Olympus D-550.)

Hope you're not spinning.

Regards.
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Old Dec 30, 2003, 1:28 PM   #8
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Thanks for the link and the advice...
sorry for the delay of my reply...
know I'm in the digiscoping forum :-)))
and I'm a happy Nikon CP4500 owner, I'm looking for a cheao but good scope to couple with William Opctics DCL-28 or Scopetronix 18mm.

Totoro
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Old Feb 7, 2004, 8:28 AM   #9
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If it was me I would opt for the 4500.

see the link below
http://www.pbase.com/ronald4500/4500_combo_series
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Old Feb 11, 2004, 11:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald4500
If it was me I would opt for the 4500.

see the link below
http://www.pbase.com/ronald4500/4500_combo_series
Ronald, The combo looks wonderful!!
I already got a TCE2. I knew that the TCDC58N only has a 30mm glass eyepiece. Could you tell more about the vignetting issue in this combo? Many Thanks.
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