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Old Mar 3, 2005, 9:19 AM   #1
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I like macro photography. Taking some ordinary thing and making it huge, almost like a microscope is just really appealing to me. This is why I've been surprised at the comparatively weak offerings I've found out there. I can go buy a 30X jewelers loupe for $30, but I can't find a macro lense above +10 for my Nikon 8700?! What gives? I get the feeling that the same is true for many cameras. Also I just bought a "lot" or palette of old photo stuff, and in amongst the adapters is a lense reversing adapter. It says it's for flipping a typical lense around for macro shooting. Why so little resources for macro shooting? Especially with the presence of so many macro lenses in other products; magnifying glass, projectors, loupes, glasses, etc. Why so little in the photo world? It seems that past +10 or so it goes straight to microscope work! Nothing much in between. Is this true and if anybody knows why I'd love to know. I also just read a post from someone who made their own macro lense out of a tube and a magnifying glass lense. Worked OK. But why do we have to do this?
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Old Mar 3, 2005, 9:15 PM   #2
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I dont know much about the 8700,but I have the 5700 and its an excellent macro camera and no added lenses are needed. Im assuming the 8700 has the macro feature,,
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Old Mar 5, 2005, 5:35 AM   #3
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Sure way amazingly great features, and with the macro lense/s super duper amazingly great features, but I sure can't shoot a fly's head and have it come out in detail at even 1/20 the image size. I want to go so macro that it almost becomes micro. You know those microscopy (wrd sp?) images where they take shots through a microscope or something? I would like to go closer to there but see absolutely zero beyond +10 in this direction for ANY CAMERA?!?!?!? I don't get it? It truly seems like a huge gap in the marketplace to me still. And yes I am intimately acquainted with the macro features of the camera. The other day I wanted to see how an old nickel I have in my small coin collection compared up to the images at collectors sites etc. I used my +4 and told it teleconverter and had to use distance to adjust the focus at this point, but got AMAZING full frame 8Mp shots of my Nickel. Printed at Poster size they are quite impressive and you can see lots of cool detail you never see day to day. But what I want to do is be able to get in there on the nickels surface where the relief of the chin of the indian is a mountain, or at least a big step up. Anyway, thanks for trying to help me pull my head out of my bottom, but it's so far up there I can see daylight again. It'll probably take someone quite knowledgable of the history and engineering of photography to answer this one sufficiently for me. If there is an answer. :?

You see, I want to know the ants personalities, not just to see that they are there.
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Old Mar 5, 2005, 8:26 AM   #4
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You may want to take a look at sites such as http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ripolini/CP_4500_2.htm which talks about the 'Reverse Mounting Technique' using standard 35mm lenses such as a 50mm, to get really close- equivalent to a +20 diopter. Also do a search in this forum under 'macro' or 'reverse mounting'.If all else fails drop me a post.

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Old Mar 5, 2005, 10:07 PM   #5
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I just read your post and I will check those out, but in the mean time I discovered a wonderful, albeit expensive, section on eBay that includes quite a number of microscopes that have the ability to take a camera attachment!!! Some of these are on seriously adjustable stands (2'-3' of adjustment)! I saw these going up to 90X for around $500. PRETTY COOL to me. The problem with the backwards mount thing for me is that I have a NIKON 8700 for the 8Mp and the fact I print the good ones HUGE. Also I'm not a SERIOUS photographer. I would probably get frustrated with a better camera right now. BUT I'm not speaking from experience on that one. Anyway, thanks, I'll check out the links! If I can reverse mount on an 8700 I'd sure like to know how, I can't imagine it right now.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 4:18 AM   #6
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I dunno, a +10 on most cameras is plenty for most people. What exactly are you trying to take. What you are asking can be tough for optics to combine well. You can end up with soft edges CA, distortions etc when adding more glass.

If you want to go above what most would consider high macro ratios, think about adding 35mm slr optics to the Nikon. In reverse you can get very high ratios depending on the zoom of the camera. I use Canon and Nikon 35mm lenseson front of the Panasonic FZ10 for higher ratios. Thing is you are filling the frame with the eye of a fly for example. Do you really expect more, if so then yep, a microscope is the way to go.

Danny.


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Old Mar 15, 2005, 1:51 PM   #7
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ZERO-D wrote:
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Why so little resources for macro shooting? Especially with the presence of so many macro lenses in other products; magnifying glass, projectors, loupes, glasses, etc. Why so little in the photo world? It seems that past +10 or so it goes straight to microscope work! Nothing much in between. Is this true and if anybody knows why I'd love to know. I also just read a post from someone who made their own macro lense out of a tube and a magnifying glass lense. Worked OK. But why do we have to do this?
People do not make higher than +10 diopters because of image quality issue. None of the available +10 diopters have good quality. Moreover, when you reverse mount a good SLR 50mm lens, you have a better quality +20 = 1000/50 diopter. So, in fact, the world is very resourceful, if you can find it. See the following discussion:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=50

Moreover, if you happen to have a SLR lens wider than a 50mm with larger exit pupil, you will be able to increase the diopter.

CK

http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam

Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500/5700 and Panasonic FZ-10 User Guides


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Old Mar 15, 2005, 2:46 PM   #8
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No I don't expect more. But I would expect that there would be something "more" than the example image I have included above. I mean it's OK, but would be a truly effective photo to me if just enough closer to be able to see at least one ant in good solid detail and resolution, even if still small. To sort of break that barrier that the eye has and take it to where it's just a bit more of an uncommon ground. The close by and every day but unfamiliar due to size brought forward. I don't know, close-ups seem like dioramas or something to me, once you get to a certain size. For example, I just bought a 30X loupe and it is pretty darned perfect. Of course it's too small to use for photos but things are just about right in there to me. Objects are still familiar but you see totally new detail that you never knew existed before too. I have a question for you also. The one solution many people have brought up is the backwards lense thing. That sounds fine and I'd like to try it, but I really don't see how I can. On the Nikon 8700 the "zoom" lense pops out a good few inches so this lense extension would have to be out even further or actually screwed on to the traveling lense, but that sounds like a no no. If this is possible on Nikon 8700 could someone please suggest an adapter etc for doing this and possibly an economical lense to try with.?!
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 3:15 PM   #9
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OK OK, I really didn't believe that the reverse lens thing could work on my camera. But now I have seen the error of my assumption. I am sorry folks for not letting that sink in sooner. Just made a call based on experience and I was wrong. Not sure exactly what to buy, the velocidapter or something but I can figure that out when the opportunity arises. Whelp, how about now? Would it be inappropriate to mention that I purchased at auction a half box full of adapters and filters for various photographic equipment recently. Of which only a few mate to any of my imaging gear. SONY DCR-PC5 Vid cam, Nikon 990 Coolpix, Nikon 8700 Coolpix. So if anybody out there would like a serious go at a pile of adapters and such (not the highest end but pretty good) there are even reverse lense adapters in there. I would trade 20 of my adapters for one reverse mount gizmo for my camera NIKON 8700 Coolpix, and/or the others mentioned above. Here are some basic sizes of these devices, I'm not very familiar with these so bare with me. Assume these are adapters: 46mm, 49 S07, SER VII, M6, 44.5, 41 M6, 45 M6, 46 M7, 43 M6, 49-55, 62, 58 M8, 55mm SER-VII, SER VII - 52, 52-55. These numbers were taken from approximately 30 adapters I have sitting on a shelf here. There are many many more than are listed here. But for the most part these sizes are repeated throughout. So, if you have any questions or would like to do a trade I would be more than happy to share the wealth. Many filters/adapters are in pretty vintage looking packages. Weird names I've never heard of, no big names from today. I think the boxes look like they are from the 50's, but surprisingly some have dates in the 80's. Anyway I can send a slew of pics to anyone interested.
And thank you patient posters for your patience and knowledge you bring to the table. It IS well appreciated.
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Old Mar 15, 2005, 11:44 PM   #10
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Ok, if you want good quality at a reasonable cost, look at something like a 3-4x twin element design. The Nikon 6T or Canon 250D are excellent optics for macro. They are also corrected for CA which the single element dioptres are not.

As for added 35mm slr lenses, I prefer 100mm and not the more common 50mm lens. Reason is my subjects are alive and moving and the 100mm offers more lens to subject distance. 35mm slr lenses are on the average highly corrected for CA, distortion as much as reasonably can be expected. In reverse the quality is excellent for smaller digicams.

You mentioned an ant, well I posted one yesterday at another site taken with an FZ10 and an added Canon 35-70mm in reverse. How close does it get, pretty close considering our ants are only around 1mm long



So thats the head of an ant basically, full frame.

So I don't really expect more from the setup. DOF and vignetting are the biggest problems. DOF we can't do much about except stopping down as far as possible. The zoom on the camera decides the image ratio and the more we zoom in the less vignetting we get.

Anyway, just an idea if you want high ratio macro's.

Danny.







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