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Old Jul 27, 2007, 8:18 AM   #31
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I use 2400 Engerizers, 2500mha energizers and 2700mha impact brand NiMH batteries with a Fuji S-9100. I get at least 180 - 200 frames on a freshly charged or less than 4 days after the charge on those batteries. I keep the batteries in hard sheel plastic cases to keep the contact etc from being exposed.

I realy love my 4 sets of energizers. Got one set of the impacts as I couldn't locate any other 2700mha at the time I got my last set of batteries. They work very very well so far. Have them in my hotshoe flash and taken over 50 shots and they still work well.

You may want to test the NiMH batteries in other cameras before you say they are good as backups as for my camera they are all I use and I shoot fires, police and rescue stuff and I have to have great gear and battery life. I suspect its the make and model of your camera that is just power hungry.

Happy shooting......

dave
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Old Jul 27, 2007, 8:59 AM   #32
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Photo 5 wrote:
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I use 2400 Engerizers.....with a Fuji S-9100. You may want to test the NiMH batteries in other cameras before you say they are good as backups as for my camera they are all I use
This thread is about"recent Kodak 'big zoom' cameras", in particular the Z712is.

I have used Ni-MH in many cameras for many years, and wanted to use them in my new Z712is, where I found they usually work very badly, and others agree, and Kodak say so.

I bought 'rechargeable CR-V3' Li-ion cells for the Z712is, and the discussion here now centres onwhether even they work satisfactorily and for how longin this camera. The Z712is is fine with CR-V3 Li primary disposables, and KLIC-8000 Li-ion rechargeables, and most of the time with, but possibly not for long, with 'rechargeable CR-V3'. Lifetime is very short with Ni-MH.

I don't think the Z712 is necessarily power hungry, as the batteries it was designed for, Li CR-V3 and Li-ion KLIC-8000, work very well, giving hundreds of shots. It's just that its low voltage cutoff is too high for Ni-MH, and possibly a bit high even for 'rechargeable CR-V3', so it shuts down when there's plenty of energy still in the cells.
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 8:01 PM   #33
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Alan T wrote:
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SilverFoxCPF wrote:
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.....little test for me...Note the number of shots until the low battery indicator comes on. Now continue to take shots until the camera shuts down.
...I found with Ni-MH that there were always just a few (maybe 3 or 4) shots from 'low batt' to shutdown...The cells still delivered enough through my 37 ohm battery tester for me to feel they'd have donea long time in my 4xAA Casio QV-5700....I'll do some more experiments and measure the open-circuit and loaded voltages when I get the chance.
After using my rechargeable CR-V3 Li-ion batteries for a while, I was inspired by a thread in 'What camera shall I buy?' to try Ni-MH AAs again in my Z712is, with careful measurements.

First I topped-up a pair of 2000mAh cells, much as I reported above on Wed6Jun above. I used them for 20 consecutive 7Mpix shots, with no use of the LCD screen and generally minimum energy use, then switched off. I unloaded these shots from card to computer, copied them to memory, and then put them back on another card (so I could keep count), and then took another 15 shots before 'low battery' appeared. I then continued, without switching off at all, for another 64 shots, with 'low battery' showing throughout. Then I switched off for a minute or two, and found that it wouldn't start again. The lens would extend and immediately retract. A few minutes later it wouldn't even extend.

So this time I got a total of 99 shots, but in only two sessions of continuously 'on'.

At the start the cells will have been 1420-1450mV o/c, delivering 38-39mA through a DVM 'battery test' 37 ohm resistor.

After camera shutdown they were 1290 & 1306mV, delivering 35.6mA through 37 ohms, and 3.6mA through 360 ohms, so under that load they'd exhibit terminal voltage of about 1.3V each.

I then discharged them using the 'discharge' process of my Quest AA/AAA charger, which says it has a nominal rate of 300mA. This took nearly 5 hours, leading me to believe that the camera switched off at a voltage too high for effective use of Ni-MH cells. At the end of the controlled discharge, the cells were 1184 & 1188 mV, delivering 3.3mA through 360 ohms, and 32.5 mA through 37 ohms., i.e., 1.2V each.

After recharge, they showed 1456mV and 4.1mA/360ohm, 39.7mA/37ohm, 1469mV under load i.e., considerably more than the start aftertop-up charge..

The charger (picture attached) is known as 'Tinkerbell' in the family because of the bag I store it in, acquired at a primary school jumble sale. I am not in the habit of carrying it around in public, obviously).

The new information I alluded to above was the recently published review of the Z712 at http://www.wrexham-cameras.com/WHATS...EST-DIGI-5.htm, where Steve (another one) claims 200 shots on a single pair of 2500 Ni-MH AAs. I spoke to the shop owner (the model for the 200 shots), and she confirmed my guess that they would have been in anearly continuous session of shooting.

So I'm now thinking that a reason for my wildly erratic and generally unsatisfactory results for battery life with Ni-MH and even 'rechargeable CR-V3' may be due to just how often Ihappen to switch the camera off. I suspect that the extension and retraction of the lens barrel draws a very heavy current. Sadly you can't review images without extending the barrel, so far as I'm aware. I suspect that unless it's going in its case, it's best to leave the camera switched on. It automatically shuts off even the electronic viewfinder quite rapidly, but it's just snoozing, and a touch on a button brings it back.

I also suspect that the 'low battery' symbol doesn't have to show for very long before switching off will cause permanent shutdown. I think casual holiday users (like myself a lot of the time), will get a lot of grief from Ni-MH AAs, just as Kodak say.

There remains the possibility that my camera is faulty, and does a premature shutdown. The lady model doesn't think so, and just says it's the wayI use it, which seems pretty low energy to me.I fear I'll have to find spend money on a proper KLIC-8000 and charger or lots of throwaway CR-V3s to find out. As a retired electrochemist from an electricity research centre, I feel I do have a reasonable understanding of the issues.

Hi, ho, all suggestions and additions welcome,

Alan T




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Old Aug 27, 2007, 11:53 PM   #34
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Alan, I'm having the same experience as you have, with the camera not being able to turn on after just a few shots 25-30; as with yours, the barrel will extend and then contract. I was using a set of rechargeable 2000 mAH NiMH batteries I had before with my other camera. I then bought a pack of the Kodak MAX 2500mAH AA NiMH rechargeable batteries and still have the same results.

As with you, I don't review the pics, have turned off the quick view, use only the EVF and very rarely use the flash. I do however do a ton of zooming and turn the camera off and on often.

Starting tomorrow I'll try leaving the camera on to see if that helps. When possible I'm going to buy a Kodak KLIC-8000 to hopefully solve the problem and squeeze out more shots. I'm currently carrying around 8 rechargeables, a handful of crappy disposables, and am still losing out on shots due to them all dying.

Thank you for your meticulous, time-intensive testing; definitely helped me!

- Wesley

PS. I LOVE my Z712!! Only thing that was bothering me was the battery life but am feeling better about it now.
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Old Aug 28, 2007, 2:01 AM   #35
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Thanks very much for your appreciation, Wesley, and I'm sure you'll be happy with your KLIC-8000 solution, which is likely to be the best. It's still a good idea to make sure you carry a spare of some kind, even if it's just a throwaway Li CR-V3 for occasional use! I'm carrying one (dated until 2016) as well as a fully-charged rechargeable!

As you may have seen in all the stuff about this issue here and in the 'Kodak' forum, there have been some difficulties with shortage of supply of KLIC-8000 batteries. I am very happy now with my pair of 'rechargeable CR-V3' Li-ion batteries. I always carry a fully-charged spare. I've now used thecamera intensively in16 days' holiday, taking 1400 shots, so I feel confident at last, after many thousands of shots altogether since May.

There are also higher capacity 2-terminal 'rechargeable CR-V3' that need yet a third type of charger. My local camera store now carries the 3-terminal type batteries & charger I have, I'm pleased to say, as they recommend the Z712 as a best buy, but they still say high capacity Ni-MH are OK.

So we have plenty of possible ways of powering this excellent camera. I hope to see of your shots on display somewhere round here! I've put some in the 'Biweekly challenge' and 'Landscape Photos', and have more from my Scottish holiday in the pipeline.

All the best, Alan T
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Old Sep 16, 2007, 3:59 PM   #36
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Hello. I have just registered to this site after finding it through a google search on Z712IS battery life. So though you have spattered the conversation around the board, it is still helping those of us who LOVE the camera, but were blown away by the dismal battery life of the batteries used in my first Kodak easy share.

After reading (and reading and reading) am I clear in that KLIC-8000 is the best and safest way to go, and that no one here has had any reason to think it would be perfectly safe to use the aftermarkets of the KLIC-8000?

Aside from all the battery research I have done here, I'm so very pleased to find all the sharing of photos! I'm in the process of trying to upgrade myself from a 'point and shooter' to at least an amature photographer! Look forward to learning from this site!


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Old Oct 9, 2007, 4:19 PM   #37
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Hello, I've read all the posts on this topic since my Kodak Z712 will be delivered in a couple of days. I thought I could just use rechargeable NiMH batteries, but it doesn't seem like it.

I do have a few thoughts. Perhaps some of you with the camera can look at the firmware version? The kodak support website has instructions on how to update your camera (basically, downloading the file onto a memory card, and then from the camera select upgrade).

The latest version online is 1.03. And some of the earlier cameras may have shipped with an older and buggy software. maybe one of the problems is being able to correctly gauge a NiMH battery as it's being used up.

Also I believe LCD brightness and sound effects also plays a role in how much power the camera uses (in addition to continuous AF, IS, zoom, main LCD). the Z712 has the feature to auto-brighten the LCD on if the environment is bright, I would imagine this drains the battery quickly too.

Thanks for all the posts, and I'm excited to try out the camera in a few days.
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Old Oct 9, 2007, 4:58 PM   #38
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Well I ordered a battery and charger from Best batt. GREAT service. Quick charge, and my camera has taken close to 200 shots in the last couple of days and no sign of slowing down. Thanks SO much for the info here.

To the above poster, give the firmware a shot I guess, but MY advice would be to skip the headaches and heartaches of having a new camera that will show you fantastic results with the temp battery that comes with only to find you can't take another set of pics until you ORDER a new battery...just my two cents! The camera is fantastic though!
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Old Oct 9, 2007, 9:23 PM   #39
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Alan T wrote


Alan,

Could it be that the difference is rated nominal voltages of the two types of batteries is the culprit? The KLIC-8000 is rated 3.7V.
A NiMH cell is rated 1.2V so two of NiMH would be 2.4V and when fully charged, from my experience would be about 3.0V.

If the Z Series "low battery' circuits operate on voltage, then it would trigger much quicker on NiMHs than on KLIC-8000s.

What do you think?

Gary

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I also suspect that the 'low battery' symbol doesn't have to show for very long before switching off will cause permanent shutdown. I think casual holiday users (like myself a lot of the time), will get a lot of grief from Ni-MH AAs, just as Kodak say.

There remains the possibility that my camera is faulty, and does a premature shutdown.

Hi, ho, all suggestions and additions welcome,

Alan T
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Old Oct 9, 2007, 10:27 PM   #40
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bayani wrote:
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Could it be that the difference is rated nominal voltages of the two types of batteries is the culprit? The KLIC-8000 is rated 3.7V. A NiMH cell is rated 1.2V so two of NiMH would be 2.4V and when fully charged, from my experience would be about 3.0V.

If the Z Series "low battery' circuits operate on voltage, then it would trigger much quicker on NiMHs than on KLIC-8000s.

What do you think?
Yes, that's exactly the conclusion I and others drew, in this thread over the last few months and in the other relevant threads in the 'Kodak' forum. See for example my post of Fri July 27th above.

Note, however, that it won't be the "rated nominal voltages" or even the open-circuit voltage that's most relevant; it will be the voltage the camera sees when it is drawing a large current from the battery.It does that every time as it's switched on and extends the lens barrel, possibly with the LCD screen illuminated as well.

Nevertheless, there are a handful of reports from people who have obtained reasonable lifetimes from Ni-MH cells. I and most other users do not find that to be the case; Li-ion rechargeable or lithium primary batteries are required.

I use 'rechargeable CR-V3' Li-ion myself, and there are many reports of excellent performance with KLIC-8000, both original, and after-market replacements.
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