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Old Jun 3, 2007, 12:15 AM   #1
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Over in the parallel 'Point & shoot - Kodak' forum.....

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...15&quote=1

Ronbaird wrote, in reply to 'Z710 battery question':

".......In Kodak lab tests, Ni-MH rechargeable batteries delivered the best results in a variety of conditions. They are designed for high-demand devices like digital cameras .....Kodak offers NiMH batteries and chargers for your camera...."


Please may I just confirm, Ron, that this does not apply to the (excellent) successor Z612 and Z712is models, which demand Li disposable (2xAA, or CRV3) or Li-ion rechargeable batteries ?

This is implied in the manuals, when compared with the Z710 manual, and confirmed by the very short battery life I have found in the Z712is with Ni-MH rechargeables. They do fit nicely in the battery compartment.

They'll do in an emergency, but only for a few shots, before the 'low battery' indicator appears. The 712 must have a higher 'battery low' cut-off voltage. Ni-MH cells that won't power the Z712is any more are still fine in other digicams! Note that I'm very mean with energy, using the large monitor very little, no continuous focus or stabilisation,no flash, and no video.

Is this an actual technical requirement of higher current drains in the newer (but very, very similar) cameras, or is it a move to 'encourage' use of Li or Li-ion technology, with its slightly higher voltage and much greater capacity than a pair of Ni-MH AAs?

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Alan T


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Old Jun 4, 2007, 1:07 PM   #2
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Just a note on the performance of the KLC-8000 LiIon used in the Kodak Z612/Z712 cameras. At an airshow last Sat. I shot 318 photos on a freshly charged battery and the viewfinder battery indicator only showed up on the last 15 or so shots. 3/4ths of the bar was still black. I shot oly about three flash shots but the zoom and of course AF and IS were used heavily. That said I was carrying a fully charge KLC8000and non-rechargeable Li CVR-3 as spares.
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Old Jun 4, 2007, 2:05 PM   #3
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ac.smith wrote:
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........KLC-8000 LiIon used in the Kodak Z612/Z712 cameras........viewfinder battery indicator only showed up on the last 15 or so shots.
I've noticed that the battery indicator only seems to show 'low battery' or, by its absence, 'not a low battery', so it's somewhat 'all-or-nothing'. I have been, of course, using either inadequate 2xAA Ni-MHs, or a disposable CRV3 Lithium, and I was hoping that the indicator would be more informative once I got a proper rechargeable. I see that the rechargeable has a smallextra contact between the + and - terminals, and I hoped it might be an extra contact for condition monitoring. Bother!

My Casio EX-Z750, (also rechargeable Li-ion) has 3 blocks on its indicatorand declines gently in good order towards the end of battery life.

I now have a Uniross 'CRV3 rechargeable', butI'm still waiting for my charger.

Alan T

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Old Jun 4, 2007, 2:19 PM   #4
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I've shot a fair while after the indicator shows up using the KLC8000. Can't tell you how many shots it will do after it shows up but I neither rush to change the battery nor have I had it go flat.
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Old Jun 4, 2007, 2:48 PM   #5
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Hello Alan,

While you are playing around with things, I wonder if you might do a little test for me...

Put some NiMh cells in your camera and take a few shots. Note the number of shots until the low battery indicator comes on. Now continue to take shots until the camera shuts down.

It may be that the voltage drops to trigger the low battery indicator, but there is still a lot of capacity left that will continue to power the camera for an extended period of time.

Tom
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Old Jun 4, 2007, 3:27 PM   #6
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Sorry, don't have any NiMHs. My DC5000 could have used them but it works fine alkaline AAs so that's all I ever used in it and then purchased KLC8000 LiIons at the outset when I purchased the Z612.
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Old Jun 4, 2007, 6:14 PM   #7
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SilverFoxCPF wrote:
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.....little test for me...Note the number of shots until the low battery indicator comes on. Now continue to take shots until the camera shuts down.
While using itover Whit weekend, I found with Ni-MH that there were always just a few (maybe 3 or 4) shots from 'low batt' to shutdown. After that it would extend the lens but immediately retract it again, until it didn't start at all. This happened, but not so rapidly,at the end of a Li CRV3 as well. I never had the Ni-MH cells recover enough to take another shot after the first shutdown. The cells still delivered enough through my 37 ohm battery tester for me to feel they'd have donea long time in my 4xAA Casio QV-5700.

I'm pretty sure it's just that the Ni-MH terminal voltage even when they're not very much discharged is below the camera's cutoff value, set assuming discharge of a 3.7V Li battery and not a 2.8V 2xAA Ni-MH one.

I'll do some more experiments and measure the open-circuit and loaded voltages when I get the chance.

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Old Jun 4, 2007, 11:29 PM   #8
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Hello Alan,

OK, I guess it is time to admit defeat...

Oh well, Lithium and Li-Ion cells should work well.

Tom
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Old Jun 5, 2007, 12:53 AM   #9
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Alan T wrote:
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ac.smith wrote:
Quote:
........KLC-8000 LiIon used in the Kodak Z612/Z712 cameras........viewfinder battery indicator only showed up on the last 15 or so shots.
I've noticed that the battery indicator only seems to show 'low battery' or, by its absence, 'not a low battery', so it's somewhat 'all-or-nothing'., and I was hoping that the indicator would be more informative once I got a proper rechargeable.
Alan T
Alan,

I guess the several modes of operating make it a challenge to give accurate battery readings:

- LCD ON/OFF

- Zoom/No zoom

- Flash/No flash

- IS always on/IS only on shutter release

- video/no video

All these factors affect battery life, as I am sure you know.

It's sort of like a car's fuel gage - they give you only indicators of how much more gas but not really how far you can go.

The latest models of cars, complete with full computerization and instrumentation, now tell you, at current speed, how much farther you can actually go in miles/kilometers.

My guess is that for a camera to be able to do something like this will mean a substantial investment in computerization.

My two-cents.

Gary
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Old Jun 5, 2007, 10:53 AM   #10
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bayani wrote:
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My guess is that for a camera to be able to do something like this will mean a substantial investment in computerization.

My two-cents.
Well I & my immediate family own or haveowned 6 digicams and 4 camcorders. One used NiCd rechargeable, 5 rechargeable NiMH,and 4 Li-ion rechargeable, and this is the first one I've had that didn't have a good progressive battery indicator, giving a good long and gradually more emphatic warning, generally a thermometer-style, or at least 3 blocks, showing full, medium, nearly empty, and about to conk.

I'm not asking for the sophistication of Sony InfoLithium(time in minutes, and always wrong!); just something that's a bit better than a veryurgent warning that you're about to stop.

I got my Li-ion CRV3 charger today. I'll soon see whether it's a last-minute-only low battery warning as I suspect. So I'm now set up always to start with a charged battery, and carry a backup as well.

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