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Old Jul 23, 2007, 10:55 PM   #11
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I need some clarification if at all possible. NiMh batteries do have a self discharge correct? So does that mean, if I charge those batteries today and go to use my camera 2 months from now, that the batteries would be dead??? Or does the self discharge mean that 1 year from now, even if I haven't used the batteries they will slowly start to become depleted and die???

Same question with rechargable Li-Ion batteries. How does the self discharge work and do the batteries stay charged even if I charge the batteries today and use the camera 2 months from now?

3rd part of the question is....Just how long does alkaline AA batteries last as compared to a good set of NiMh? For example, what would be the battery life of AA alkaline batteries in a Canon A560 which has a 2.5" LCD. And what would be the battery life of AA NiMh's in the same exact camera? How many pictures do you think I could get out of either??? Thanx in advance....
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Old Jul 23, 2007, 11:32 PM   #12
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DIGuy wrote:
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I need some clarification if at all possible. NiMh batteries do have a self discharge correct? So does that mean, if I charge those batteries today and go to use my camera 2 months from now, that the batteries would be dead??? Or does the self discharge mean that 1 year from now, even if I haven't used the batteries they will slowly start to become depleted and die???

Same question with rechargable Li-Ion batteries. How does the self discharge work and do the batteries stay charged even if I charge the batteries today and use the camera 2 months from now?

3rd part of the question is....Just how long does alkaline AA batteries last as compared to a good set of NiMh? For example, what would be the battery life of AA alkaline batteries in a Canon A560 which has a 2.5" LCD. And what would be the battery life of AA NiMh's in the same exact camera? How many pictures do you think I could get out of either??? Thanx in advance....
Standard NiMH cells will loose most of their capacity after sitting for 2 months. LSD (Low Self Discharge) NiMH cells have a much slower self-discharge with a lower overall capacity. eneloop LSD cells claim to retain 85% of their charge after sitting for 1 year.

2. Li-Ion have a much lower self discharge rate than NiMH cells. After 2 storage they would still have plenty of power left.

3. Alkaline cells will burn much more quickly in high current draw devices such as digital cameras and other electronic devices. I wouldn't even use Alkaline in a digital camera, you'd probably get 10-12 shots vs. hundreds with NiMH cells.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 11:53 AM   #13
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Thx for the response Copper....Your answer combined with the research I did last night cleared it up alot for me. 1 last question...

I know Energizer Lithium AA e2 batteries claim to last 7x longer than alkaline AA's but do they have any disadvantages? Do they have any discharge? Also if I buy multiple packs of these batteries, do they start losing capacity even if I don't use them? And same question for NiMh, I'm guessing it wouldn't be smart to buy a bunch ofNiMh batteries all at once because they would start losing power.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 12:21 PM   #14
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Lithium cells start self-discharging immediately after they're manufactured. They do not self-discharge nearly as fast as NiMH. I wouldn't buy more e2s that you need, and purchase more when they run out.

The disadvantage: They're very expensive. Almost $20 for 8 cells in many stores.

I much prefer to spend $8 on (4) eneloop cells and re-use them hundreds of times. Again, Sanyo claims they'll retain 85%of their charge after sitting unused for a year. That sounds good to me.

I mainly use eneloops in my devices that take AA cells. If I'm going to be taking alot of pictures, say on a trip or a party, I'l'l switch to my Powerex 2700 mAh cells for that occasion only, then switch back to eneloop cells when the cam isn't being used all that often. This way if the cam is shelved for 2 mo. with eneloop cells, I know i can grab and go without topping off the cells.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 12:34 PM   #15
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coppertrail wrote:
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Lithium cells start self-discharging immediately after they're manufactured. They do not self-discharge nearly as fast as NiMH. I wouldn't buy more e2s that you need, and purchase more when they run out.

The disadvantage: They're very expensive. Almost $20 for 8 cells in many stores.

I much prefer to spend $8 on (4) eneloop cells and re-use them hundreds of times. Again, Sanyo claims they'll retain 85%of their charge after sitting unused for a year. That sounds good to me.

I mainly use eneloops in my devices that take AA cells. If I'm going to be taking alot of pictures, say on a trip or a party, I'l'l switch to my Powerex 2700 mAh cells for that occasion only, then switch back to eneloop cells when the cam isn't being used all that often. This way if the cam is shelved for 2 mo. with eneloop cells, I know i can grab and go without topping off the cells.
Thx again for a speedy response...Is there any truth to the fact that certain cameras (I seem to remember ALL Panasonics) recommend that you DO NOT USE AA e2 batteries due to overheating problems??? Would I risk damaging the camera if I did decide to use them? Or is this completely untrue...Even tho' I believe Panasonic user's manuals actually state this.
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Old Jul 24, 2007, 12:47 PM   #16
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I can't comment on the Panasonic issue, I don't own any of their cameras.
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Old Jul 25, 2007, 10:57 PM   #17
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coppertrail wrote:

2. Li-Ion have a much lower self discharge rate than NiMH cells.* After 2 storage they would still have plenty of power left.

3. Alkaline cells will burn much more quickly in high current draw devices such as digital cameras and other electronic devices.* I wouldn't even use Alkaline in a digital camera, you'd probably get 10-12 shots vs. hundreds with NiMH cells.*
While I know coppertail is also another battery expert (I think also on Candlelight forums) and I respect his opinion, there should be some points of clarification....

Li-ions, while truly having a low self discharge, are also said to lose permanent capacity if charged to 100% and left to sit in a "ready-to-shoot" mode. eg, Li-ion stored at room temp. for 1yr at 100% charge will permanently lose 20% of it's capacity. And since Li-ions are proprietary in nature, with few back-up options, you will tend to always want to "top-off" a Li-ion and keep it at 100%. Also it is always bad to run a Li-ion down until the camera cuts off (deep discharge), whereas it is good to deep discharge a NiMh occasionally. Reference: http://batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

10-12 shots for Alkaline vs hundreds for NiMh is an exaggeration.... 170 Alkaline vs 450 NiMh shots, say 3 to 5x difference, sounds about right to me. Reference near bottom of: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=15207

Lastly, forgetting the cost of Lithium and Alakaline AAs for a second, you should consider the environment aspects of constantly disposing "non-renewable" batteries.

At least we agree Eneloops are the way to go... unless you tend to shoot over 100 pics/week, then I'd go with high-capacity 2700 NiMh from a reputable manufacture, like Sanyo.
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Old Jul 25, 2007, 11:15 PM   #18
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1. I have seen a digicam get 10-12 shots with alkaline cells. This is not an exaggeration, rather, its based on my experience. I'm sure some cams may get more on alkaline cells, but NiMH are highly recommended in non Li-Ion cameras.

2. We weren't discussing Li-Ion cells, but rather Lithium cells. He was inquiring about Energizer e2 cells.

3. I find, based on my experience, the Maha Powerex 2700cells to be much better than the Sanyo 2700 cells both in terms of capacity and self discharge rates. I simply cannot recommend them based on my experience.
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Old Jul 26, 2007, 12:44 AM   #19
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I too have seen some cameras die out after 10-12 shots with alkaline AAs. So I'm assuming that 170 shots with the S5IS with the LCD screen off. And it clearly states that it's 450 shots with the LCD screen on. Which 170 shots even seems far fetched, so I am gonna borrow my brother's S5IS sometime later this week and see just how many shots I get on alkaline AAs....
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Old Jul 31, 2007, 12:30 AM   #20
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coppertrail wrote:
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Lithium cells start self-discharging immediately after they're manufactured. They do not self-discharge nearly as fast as NiMH. I wouldn't buy more e2s that you need, and purchase more when they run out.

The disadvantage: They're very expensive. Almost $20 for 8 cells in many stores.

I much prefer to spend $8 on (4) eneloop cells and re-use them hundreds of times. Again, Sanyo claims they'll retain 85%of their charge after sitting unused for a year. That sounds good to me.

I mainly use eneloops in my devices that take AA cells. If I'm going to be taking alot of pictures, say on a trip or a party, I'l'l switch to my Powerex 2700 mAh cells for that occasion only, then switch back to eneloop cells when the cam isn't being used all that often. This way if the cam is shelved for 2 mo. with eneloop cells, I know i can grab and go without topping off the cells.
I was told by many camera shops and eletronic shops that when the unit is in storage (they told me 3+ weeks) I should have the batteries removed because if the cells are still in the unit the electronics will slowly drain a little power out of the cells on top of the cells self-discharge.

I could be wrong but that's the data I've been given.



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