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Old Apr 5, 2008, 9:57 AM   #11
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I'll try to use your numerical system to avoid confusion. I'm used to posting comments intersperced, but that's not possible here.

(1) Actually, two or more years doesn't seem bad at all if I could find a good charger and lithium cells at reasonable prices. Most stores I've visited don't carry rechargeable lithium batteries and they're not all that common on the web, either.

(2) Well, I have a few Flukes somewherearound here, I just haven't used them since I retired. I'll dig one out and see what kind of voltages I can measure.

(3) If you're right, it sucks. Kodak *had* to know that people owned NiMH stuff and should have been able to keep operating voltages in their range even if it meant shorter use-per-charge than lithium.

(4) I'm not so sure Kodak couldn't have engineered at least a third battery position, but I'm not gonna dismantle the camera to critique the layout, at least not yet. They've been in the camerabusiness for a long time and shouldbe able to keep power consumption to an absolute minimum, but I suppose using more state-of-the-art componentsmight have required a higher price-point. I'll still stick with them since I haven't seen a super-zoom with better quality images, especially at high zoom. I *would* like to have tried the Lumix FZ-18, but no one stocked them at the time I was shopping. (The Sony H9 was terrible, IMHO.)

(5) Others told me about their good luck with the lithium, but I couldn't readily find rechageablesor chargers, and then the articles I read about degradation convinced me to stick with NiMH. Now, I'm not so sure.

Thanks for the pointer to the other discussions, maybe I'll come away with better information and understandingon this issue.

Doug
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Old Apr 5, 2008, 10:04 AM   #12
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Yes, I see that in the little User's Manual Kodak provides in the box. I'd thought I had a link to a more comprehensive manual for the Z812, but I can't seem to find the link or the print-out. Maybe it's senility creeping in, I don't know, but I'd thought there was mention of NiMH being acceptable somewhere.

Perhaps it's just a case of wishful thinking, but I'll look a little more for that full manual.

Doug
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Old Apr 8, 2008, 5:58 AM   #13
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dvus wrote:
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...a link to a more comprehensive manual for the Z812
Try this...

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/servi...ath=6594/11656

Good luck!


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Old Apr 8, 2008, 6:37 AM   #14
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Thank you. As a side note: 4 days with 2eneloops in place, no SD card installed, camera still going strong. Every day I turn on the camera a couple of times, fill the internal memory with snaps, review them and then erase all. With the San Disk SD installed, the camera wouldn't work 2 days in a row. Next test is to try a Kingston 2 Gig SD card, then if that fails, a Kodak card.
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Old Apr 10, 2008, 6:05 AM   #15
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dvus wrote:
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Thank you. As a side note: 4 days with 2eneloops in place, no SD card installed, camera still going strong. Every day I turn on the camera a couple of times, fill the internal memory with snaps, review them and then erase all. With the San Disk SD installed, the camera wouldn't work 2 days in a row. Next test is to try a Kingston 2 Gig SD card, then if that fails, a Kodak card.
Another useful test would be to invest in just one disposable primary Li CR-V3, (or 2 Li AAs), which as I said would be satisfactory as an emergency spare for many years. See if the camera works properly. At least this would check the camera for manufacturing faults.

If you bought the AA Li cells, they'd give a long life in any appliance you chose after verifying operation of the camera, e.g., in an emergency flashlight.

As you know,I don't expect your camera to work satisfactorily on any sort of Ni-MH cells. Maybe the extra drain of card-writing is just too much. But we're not sure it's not a camera fault yet. If primary Li fixes it, then consider getting one of the rechargeable Li options. It won't destroy the planet to use just one set of throwaways. (I expect you drive an automobile, which is a more effective destroyer.)

Good luck. In my favorite camera shop there's a fantastic20x16 sized print from a Z812 sitting on the counter, so I'm sure you'll be pleased once you sort it out (assuming you don't want good video).
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Old Apr 10, 2008, 8:24 AM   #16
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Yes, and to that end I visited Best Buy to pick up a CRV-3 and a different brand SD card. They had the Kingston 2 Gig SD, but no throw-away lithiums. They *did* have a Kodak lithium battery charger for $45, but I then discovered the lithium rechargeable battery pack was an additional $40! I decided to think it over. I'm guessing I can get a CRV-3 at any number of places, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I guess if the camera had never worked acceptably with NiMH cells I wouldn't be going through all this, but it did, SD card and all, so something has changed. It's really got me perplexed.


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Old Apr 10, 2008, 9:15 AM   #17
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dvus wrote:
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....They *did* have a Kodak lithium battery charger for $45, but I then discovered the lithium rechargeable battery pack was an additional $40!
From your login name I think you may be in the US.

http://www.bestbatt.comare advertising both 'rechargeable CR-V3' and 'replacement KLIC-8000' for $8.50, and the appropriate chargers for $18.50, which seems good value to me. I seem to remember folk round here think they're a reputable company.

If I can find equivalent value in the UK (which I doubt) I might well get a KLIC-8000 or two myself. However, it looks to me as though prices here are numerically the same, but in ukpounds instead of dollars, i.e., twice the price. This is normal for technological goods. Hi-ho!


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Old Apr 10, 2008, 9:57 AM   #18
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Congrats, you're the first person to devine that hidden code in my nym. (And that's *not* sarcasm) Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

Doug V.

( dv(in the)us ), pronounced "devious", which I'm really not.
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Old Apr 10, 2008, 6:47 PM   #19
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I just want to follow up that I wrote a review on Duracell 2650mAh some time ago. They performed wonderfully new.

Now, I sent one set back to Duracell due to increasing internal resistance causing chargers to reject these cells and getting premature "low batt" indicator due to voltage drop from high internal resistance. The resistance got so high that it seemed like the battery "drained" over night, because they couldn't sustain high enough voltage to operate a camera.

Here, I have another set with the same problem and these batteries were only used two dozens or so cycles and have sat around not installed in anything.

I had a set of eneloops that did the samething as well... I'm trying to revive these, but if they don't get any better, I'm sending them back to Duracell under their lifetime warranty.


Try with a set of alkaline in your camera. Your batteries might just be taking a crap like mine.
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Old Apr 10, 2008, 11:07 PM   #20
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Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

It occurs to me that I have read that lithium batteries cannot be discharged below a certain threshold without being permanently damaged. Some of the larger lithium battery packs have a built in monitor that prevents this by removing the battery fromthe circuit when this level is reached.

Li-Ions used in AA applications probably don't have room for this monitor and so must depend on the device in which they are used to prevent excess discharge.

I can see where a NiMH used in a device designed to use Li-Ionmight reach this threshold long before it were fully discharged, thus giving the appearance of faulty cell(s).

Just one more wrench in the works to consider.

Doug
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