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Old Apr 15, 2008, 5:53 AM   #31
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The principle reason for my buying my Z712 was its small size and weight. For the first time I had a real competitor in quality and flexibility to my old Olympus OM-10 SLR (small and light for its time) plus its 35-80 and 80-210mm zooms. I now have quality nearly to match that, at a fraction of the cost, a fraction of the bulk and weight, and enormously more convenient.

I just weighed one of my rechargeable CR-V3 Li-ion batteries, and it's 36g. Four Ni-MH cellsare 105g, and exactly twice the bulk. So I'm disappointed that the Z712 won't work for me on Ni-MH, but not very. I'm more disappointed that Kodak didn't make it absolutely explicit, so that I and many others were misled. Failing to provide the battery and charger (absent from the Z712, bundled with the 612) was the big mistake. This was presumably to keep the price down.

My last but one digicam (Casio QV-5700) was good for its day, and similarly sized, but much heavier due to its 4 AAs.

So I'm sure Li-ion (or better successor technologies?) is the right way to go. My last and still current Casio EX-750 would be at least 1.5X the size and wouldn't go in a breast pocket if it used AAs!
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 8:33 AM   #32
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Well, I bought the Z812 due to my disappointment with the Sony H9. I wanted a super-zoom P&S and I checked out the Canon S5IS and the H9. (I alsowanted to see a Panasonic F8, but no one had one I could play with before buying.) I settled for the H9 but soon returned it due to smeary resolution at high zoom and excessive noise in low light. I picked the Z812 on a friend's insistance I would like the output and he was right. The Sony was a much more expensive unit than the Kodak, but for my money, can't hold a candle to Kodak's output. If it weren't for this darn battery issue I'd be completely satisfied with it.

I have to agree with Alan T that Kodak should have been more up front about the battery restrictions against NiMH. I think that if I had known I still would have bought it, but I certainly wouldn't have invested so much in NiMH chargers and cells.

Maybe I'll give one of the chargers and some cells to my sister for her Panasonic FX-100. It takes two NiMH and shoots forever (a slight exaggeration, perhaps).
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Old Apr 15, 2008, 4:59 PM   #33
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Lenmar's warranty is pretty good, so I think something like this is pretty good, however after S&H, it'll be around $40.
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/a...mp;x=0&y=0


Thomas Distributing's got pretty good selection.
I've seen CRV3 rechargeable kit at Radio Shack as well..

I just checked out the Kodak's page and apparently this model doesn't support NiMH or alkaline. It specifically says AA LITHIUM.
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...q-locale=en_US


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Old Apr 17, 2008, 9:53 AM   #34
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dvus wrote:
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It occurs to me that I have read that lithium batteries cannot be discharged below a certain threshold without being permanently damaged.
That's for rechargeable LiIons. Doesn't apply to primary cells. I had a set of Li primary AAs in an travel electric razor. Razor was used for about a week twice a year for about eight years before the razor performance dropped below satisfactory. No overheating issue at all.
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Old Apr 17, 2008, 6:02 PM   #35
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ac.smith wrote:
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That's for rechargeable LiIons. Doesn't apply to primary cells. I had a set of Li primary AAs in an travel electric razor. Razor was used for about a week twice a year for about eight years before the razor performance dropped below satisfactory. No overheating issue at all.
Well, of course that's for rechargeables, when throw-aways get below operating voltage/current you toss them away anyways. Eight years sounds like pretty good performance, though.
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Old Apr 19, 2008, 2:13 AM   #36
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As for the card not in, batteries work for two days, card in, they don't, that's usual behavior. When a card is not in a camera, then the camera just stores the photo into itself, not having to mess around with the camera slot, however, with a camera IN, it uses power to send the photo into a card. The slower the card speed, the more power it will take to save it into that card, the faster the card, the opposite happens. HOWEVER, a card inside of the camera SHOULD NOT drain the batteries! I'm going for the charger not charging the batteries... how long do you leave the batteries in the charger?
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Old Apr 19, 2008, 2:49 AM   #37
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Exilmo wrote:
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a card inside of the camera SHOULD NOT drain the batteries! I'm going for the charger not charging the batteries... how long do you leave the batteries in the charger?
I agree with that. If a camera is turned off/powered down, then having a memory card either in the camera or out of the camera would not cause the camera to drain its batteries. I'm going to predict that the camera's circuit characteristics may have changed somehow, such that its minimum operating voltage has come down and will no longer allow the 1.2 volt nicad/nimh batteries to power the camera. But also considering that the recommended batteries are 1.5 volt lithiums. This is all assuming that the camera is currently working flawlessly with the 1.5 volt AA lithiums.

Also, it was mentioned that the nimh AA batteries are being 'drained'. To test the batteries......maybe we can just charge them up. And then we put them in a cheap portable handheld shaver that supports say 2 AA nimh batteries. And turn on the shaver for a long time. If the shaver works well, then the batteries should be great. Then, charge the batteries to full capacity again, and then put them in the camera. If the camera doesn't work, or works only for a short time, then take the batteries out again and put them immediately into the shaver, and see if the shaver runs fine again. If the shaver runs well, then the issue is with the camera....or should just put 1.5 V batteries into the camera instead of 1.2 V. Also, if the camera is working fine with a particular set/brand of nimh 1.2 V batteries, then it's possible that these are developing adequate voltage to pass the camera's battery tester. Thumbs down to kodak though - for not designing the camera to work with the 1.2 V batteries.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 12:04 AM   #38
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Exilmo wrote:
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As for the card not in, batteries work for two days, card in, they don't, that's usual behavior. When a card is not in a camera, then the camera just stores the photo into itself, not having to mess around with the camera slot, however, with a camera IN, it uses power to send the photo into a card. The slower the card speed, the more power it will take to save it into that card, the faster the card, the opposite happens. HOWEVER, a card inside of the camera SHOULD NOT drain the batteries! I'm going for the charger not charging the batteries... how long do you leave the batteries in the charger?
At first, I could leave it for weeks and still have power to run the camera. Lately, leaving it overnight gives me a camera that either will only take a couple of shots or won't even turn on.

It would seem that the operating system of the camera must present voltage to the SD card to see if it conducts to some sort ofan input to signal the card's presence and available room. If for some reason that voltage remained when the camera is "Off" then you'd get some drain. There could be other circuits I am unaware of as well. It occurs to me that not allowing the PC to "remove" the card properly before it's actually physically removed could possibly cause a problem, I don't really know. I'm just shooting in the dark, so to speak.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 3:04 AM   #39
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dvus wrote:
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Exilmo wrote:
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As for the card not in, batteries work for two days, card in, they don't, that's usual behavior. When a card is not in a camera, then the camera just stores the photo into itself, not having to mess around with the camera slot, however, with a camera IN, it uses power to send the photo into a card. The slower the card speed, the more power it will take to save it into that card, the faster the card, the opposite happens. HOWEVER, a card inside of the camera SHOULD NOT drain the batteries! I'm going for the charger not charging the batteries... how long do you leave the batteries in the charger?
At first, I could leave it for weeks and still have power to run the camera. Lately, leaving it overnight gives me a camera that either will only take a couple of shots or won't even turn on.

It would seem that the operating system of the camera must present voltage to the SD card to see if it conducts to some sort ofan input to signal the card's presence and available room. If for some reason that voltage remained when the camera is "Off" then you'd get some drain. There could be other circuits I am unaware of as well. It occurs to me that not allowing the PC to "remove" the card properly before it's actually physically removed could possibly cause a problem, I don't really know. I'm just shooting in the dark, so to speak.
well does the problem go away when you remove the SD?
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 7:56 AM   #40
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itsme000 wrote:
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Exilmo wrote:
well does the problem go away when you remove the SD?
Actually, it *did* seem to improve the situation. After having the battery seemdead overnight about 3 days running I tookthe SDout and for the next several days I would power on the camera, take a half-dozen shots (requiring flash), delete the images one at a time and then power down the camera. I did that for 6 or 7 days successfully, but then the Li-Ion charger and cells arrived and I was impatient to try those to see how they worked. As it happens I've been too busy to use the camera, so it's been sitting waiting for 2 or 3 days.

Now I have a brand new Maha charger, a LaCross BC-900 charger, 4-2700 mAH Sanyos, 4 eneloops, 4-2700 mAH Powerex cells and 4-2300 mAH Panasonics, all practically new except the latter. I could run my house on NiMH if I had an inverter!
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